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Author Topic: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension  (Read 542099 times)

EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1335 on: June 26, 2015, 11:58:02 am »

One thing I will say about SP is, you don't know what a good army looks like till you've played MP.  The sheer amount of STUFF players will get into one place to murder each other is way more than you'd expect from playing the AI.

I mean if you're fighting the impossible AI they might get an impressive amount of light infantry together or something.  But a human player might get a dozen evocation mages that don't need any boosters and rain death on you from the first turn.  Or get 30+ high end giant sacreds together or something.  Or spam demons and start every battle with rain of blood.  150 crossbowman with fire arrows, that kind of thing.  It a whole different game.

Also, Dominions is kind of a board game in that you need to read the general feeling of the players and convince them to act in a way that you want them to.  Diplomacy is super important; I'd say for a lot of the weaker factions your basic strategy versus bless rush nations is "use diplomacy and luck to make sure you don't get in an early war with them".
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Delta Foxtrot

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1336 on: June 26, 2015, 01:13:49 pm »

Oh yeah, diplomacy is a big equalizer. I've destroyed and been destroyed several times by being on the wrong side of a 3v1. That said, I've also competently (so I'd like to think) held back 2 & 3v1's for a good long while in more than one occasion. You can do wonders if people get complacent (again I've been on both sides of that particular event). Partially it comes down to luck, don't be a late bloomer neighbouring a bless rusher. On the other hand, if you're a later bloomer, you frigging make sure you can handle an early rush by picking the right pretender and early game strat.

Fingers crossed imprisoned scales oracle gets you really far if it works, but that's a pretty big if in certain match-ups.

Btw, has the water patch been released yet and if not, what's the ETA on that? If it takes a while longer it could be a good opportunity to get back on the PBEM wagon.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1337 on: June 26, 2015, 01:41:20 pm »

If you're taking an imprisoned pretender for scales you aren't being creative enough IMO.  All you need is a cheap one.  A rainbow mage can site search fine and give you every scale you need on most factions.  There are also a tiny amount of what i would call "thug pretenders", which are combatants that aren't strong enough to be a proper SC but cost as little as the low-end mage pretenders and can still help out here and there.  Like the Son of Fenrir and the Pheonix.  If you're researching construction early you can bring a dormant titan with little/no magic and use them as a midgame SC, again for ~90 points net cost.  To get a nice scales build you shouldn't need more than ~300 points if you're thoughtful about it.  There isn't a faction in the game where the most efficient path is to max out every scale.
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1338 on: June 26, 2015, 03:08:22 pm »

... except MA ermor or lemuria. Though admittedly they max a bunch of their stuff in the opposite direction you would expect :V
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1339 on: June 26, 2015, 03:20:09 pm »

Btw, has the water patch been released yet and if not, what's the ETA on that? If it takes a while longer it could be a good opportunity to get back on the PBEM wagon.

Still not out, and ETA isn't clear. Speculation is leaning towards August, but that's just speculation. Judging by the changelog, it looks like there's still some work to be done based on what has and has not been discussed for inclusion, though.
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sum1won

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1340 on: June 27, 2015, 07:59:31 pm »

I thought it was funny that EA Kailasa was listed as a weak nation, but MA Bandar Log wasn't.

If you think that Bandar Log is as deserving as Kailasa, or Kailasa isn't, please explain why?  That's kind of why I'm posting this.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1341 on: June 27, 2015, 09:41:41 pm »

I haven't actually played them seriously, but I'll try to analyze them based on what I see on the inspector and my experience playing Kailasa recently (but it wasn't in a really competitive game, though; I didn't need SCs for example).


Overall they don't look quite as bad as I thought they would. I'd probably need to actually give them a try to see how it works out. The biggest problems I'm anticipating so far might be getting started early (as far as being able to knock over neighboring indies), early site-searching diversity, and getting enough gems to actually summon the casters you want to use.
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Kagus

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1342 on: June 28, 2015, 04:51:58 am »

Do the naga summons suffer the same dickery as Shinuyama's oni summons?  In that, despite being summoned units, they cost a buttload of gold upkeep?

I had some funny times trying to find a way of shoving Bandar Log into being a blood nation, since they get the blood summons of Lanka...  Including other blood mages.  Don't think I ever found a particularly elegant solution for that though, although I did wonder a bit about synergies with one of Log's random heroes, the white ape.

Normally not hugely interesting, he does provide a massive unrest reduction for the province he's in, as well as freespawning more units that further reduce unrest.  Might be fun to plant them in a hunting province and let them get the angry parents to calm their tits about all the sacrifices.

E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1343 on: June 28, 2015, 11:19:13 am »

Summoned naga use the recruitable unit, so yes, they have upkeep.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1344 on: June 28, 2015, 11:21:27 am »

Same for the Yaksha, Yakshini, and Mandeha.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1345 on: June 28, 2015, 11:56:41 am »

Does anyone know if, for magic beings and undead, there needs to be enough leadership to lead them all in order to keep them alive, or just a single mage/death mage?
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1346 on: June 28, 2015, 12:07:20 pm »

I... want to say you just need the one, to keep things from insta-dying. Pretty sure that's how it works with Ermor and Lemuria, anyway. Just need the one king or point of PD to have the buggeroff huge pile of freespawn that's been collecting in a province all join in the defense. Could be misremembering, though...
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1347 on: June 28, 2015, 01:17:16 pm »

No, that's exactly right. A Handful of Acorns and a Skull Talisman on a mundane leader is enough to ensure leadership for unlimited numbers of undead, demons, and magic beings. Well, so long as they don't need to go anywhere...
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etgfrog

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1348 on: July 03, 2015, 12:31:41 am »

Hm...this is highly skeptical on being able to pull off because all that is required, C'tis nation, Devourer of Souls pretender, get to construction 8, make and equip the black heart (blood 2) and amulet of the doppelganger(air 3) to pretender. Run into enemy capital and instant kill the enemy pretender. I'm also thinking you have probably already wasted too much resources by the time you could pull that off, and luck plays just as big of a factor. It actually might be easier to go with a Teotl of the night and add equipment if your going that route.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1349 on: July 03, 2015, 01:08:25 am »

Killing the enemy pretender is not a high priority by... year 5 for sure, probably WAY early than that.  Honestly by the time imprisoned pretenders are released, what a pretender can do is a drop in the bucket compared to what their nation can do.  Mostly at that point they provide options rather than power, AKA forging/casting spells the nation itself can't cast.

The only pretender that's worth planning to kill from turn 1 is an awake SC in a neighboring nation.  And that's only a major concern defensively.  Planning to assassinate pretenders in their own territory from before the game starts is simply not viable or useful.
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