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Poll

Where do you want to see the shops in LCS?

I prefer shops to be sorted into their own district (eg, The Commercial District)
- 30 (68.2%)
I prefer shops to be spread around the city in other districts
- 14 (31.8%)

Total Members Voted: 43


Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?  (Read 3470 times)

Nachodsk

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2013, 04:35:57 pm »

I would like as a liberal to open my own "Hippie" store to sell stuff and make money to spend on my liberal agenda to destroy the conservatives!
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Cheedows

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2013, 06:15:32 pm »

I would like as a liberal to open my own "Hippie" store to sell stuff and make money to spend on my liberal agenda to destroy the conservatives!

Might be a joke, but opening a shop isn't a bad idea, considering we can have business fronts
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FinetalPies

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2013, 10:17:22 pm »

Just for voting's sake:

 - Add a shopping option to the activate liberals menu
 - Keep shops as squad destination, spread around the city

Don't you really get the best of both world's this way? It's both convenient and flavourful.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2013, 10:33:55 am »

Just for voting's sake:

 - Add a shopping option to the activate liberals menu
 - Keep shops as squad destination, spread around the city

Don't you really get the best of both world's this way? It's both convenient and flavourful.

I'm coming to the same conclusion. This won't satisfy everyone, since it's still a disruption in the way people are used to accessing shops from recent versions, but I think in the end it achieves the goals of both approaches.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2013, 11:05:11 am »

When I play roguelikes, I prefer to have a setup such that I can quickly navigate through the UI to whatever needs doing. As such, I support the shops all being on one screen.
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Jboy2000000

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2013, 06:59:30 pm »

I don't see why you would really do that, I mean, having everything in one place trumps in the votes 19 to 8, it wouldn't really be fair to those 19 people.
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FinetalPies

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 07:32:49 am »

I think the shopping screen from activate liberals will be even more convenient. I've assembled a squad of one guy just to go sell some loot so many times now.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 04:39:08 pm »

I don't see why you would really do that, I mean, having everything in one place trumps in the votes 19 to 8, it wouldn't really be fair to those 19 people.

The key thing is that I put the poll up to help me to make a decision, not to delegate the decision to a vote. For better or for worse, I have a lot more faith in my own judgment as a game designer than I do in design-by-democracy.

In terms of the merits of the particular decision I'm considering, I am actually talking about having all of the shops accessible in one place, it's just that the new place to do that would be in the Activation menu, rather than the Fight Evil menu. This would fit in really well with the upcoming ability to recruit through the Activation menu, and would probably be in the same subpage as recruiting.

I also want to point out that having the shops distributed throughout the city isn't as bad as it sounds to you. You tried the National LCS stuff and found it really difficult to deal with the different organization of different cities, and the lack of a commercial district was part of that. But no commercial district alone isn't that frustrating, unless it's only the initial "oh, these moved" transition period.

For many many years, LCS had no commercial district, and I never saw a single complaint about the way shops were in different parts of the city. I moved them together because it struck me as a good idea to have shopping accessible in one place, and because I was trying to limit the size of the districts so that there wasn't any paging in the Fight Evil menus. I've shrunk the districts further since then, so that part doesn't matter anymore, and making all the shops accessible from the activation menu addresses the convenience factor.

I've known a lot of game designers, and the area that my personal strongest relative strength is compared to others is in seeing the game from a player's perspective, and quickly identifying likely changes in play patterns. Sometimes that means I make unintuitive decisions because I can foresee them being a net positive. When I put recruitment caps in the game, there was some passionate opposition to the idea. It was very disruptive, and it did nothing but make the player's job harder. I did it anyway because I felt that it would be an interesting system and it would dramatically reduce the amount of grind in the game, instead forcing you to go out and play the game before you can continue powering up. Despite the initial opposition, when I ran a poll looking back on the decision a few months after I put recruit caps in, only 2 in 16 people felt that the recruitment limits had made the game less fun, while 10 in 16 said they'd made the game more fun.

Basically, I would do it because I think it's the best option, and because I think most people in both camps will be happy with that "compromise" in the long run.

Thought: If the shops show up in the Activation menu, do they need to show up in the Fight Evil menus at all?
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KA101

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 07:51:34 pm »

As I said earlier, I'd like them kept as squad-targets in the event it ever becomes possible to send personnel to protect against or hard-counter CCS operations.  I could understand an LCS hit on the Pawn & Gun as a statement for Gun Control; likewise the Dept. Store at C/C+ Gun Control.
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Nachodsk

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 02:37:08 pm »

I would like as a liberal to open my own "Hippie" store to sell stuff and make money to spend on my liberal agenda to destroy the conservatives!

Might be a joke, but opening a shop isn't a bad idea, considering we can have business fronts

As Sheldon once said.. "I never joke about safety" well, i have to say "I never joke about LCS"

No, seriously.. i think it might be a good idea it wasnt a joke actually 8/
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FinetalPies

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 01:41:59 am »

I'd keep the shops as a destination because sometimes you'll want to go and buy things to equip to your squad right away, instead of having to buy X amount of things then equipping them after.

Also I really like the idea of being able to cause trouble or have some other objective (Protecting people from the CCS sounds really noble and fun and great for notoriety). Obviously for now they'll keep doing nothing, but maybe one day, y'know?
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Alpheus

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2013, 05:37:33 pm »

One place is so damn handy I think it should stay.  What is gained by moving the shops around?  Player has to hit more buttons needlessly?
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2013, 06:18:35 pm »

What I've done for the moment is kept a commercial district in single city mode, while keeping shop location one of the things that varies by city in multiple city mode.
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shibby1295

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2013, 05:42:36 pm »

I'd like to submit another possibility for consideration, without necessarily claiming that it's the correct solution.

You could allow destinations to be chosen either by area or by type. There's more than one way to implement this, but my first thought is for the menus to flow like:
Fight evil ->
  Downtown
  (...)
  From directory ->
     Apartments
     Public spaces
     Government buildings
     Business sites
     Shops ->
        Pawn Shop               Industrial District
        Department Store      Downtown
        The Oubliette            University District
        Used Car Lot             Industrial District

Getting a good set of categories might be tough, but I think it's worth thinking about.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Do you want shops to be sorted into The Commercial District?
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2013, 06:02:32 pm »

I like it. Right now I'm in a bit of a rut with LCS inspiration, so I wouldn't hold your breath on seeing something like implemented, but I think it's a good approach.
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