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[Remalle]

Personally I'd love to see "Masked Link," switching between the Deku, Zora and Goron masks.  I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone what their movesets would be. Maybe with a bit of Majora itself showing up for the Final Smash.

I've already said I'd love to see the Hero of Time return, and this is the perfect way to do it without making him and Twilight Princess Link clones.  His final smash is obvious, too: Fierce Deity Mask.

[Enzo]

Mind you I am someone who never liked Young Link and Cartoon Link.

Best characters in the game.

I might be the only person NOT against clones. It's not like every clone represents a lost original character 1:1, the clones are presumably much easier to implement and balance, meaning more choices overall...

But maybe I just feel that way because I don't want to lose Young Link...

[Heron TSG]

At LEAST your idea has a Link with a entirely different moveset. So while I'd still prefer another character, I'd hardly complain about the moveset.

Well other then being a transform character... the one thing Super Smash bros never did very well.

Pokemon Trainer with a code to de-activate Stamina actually works very well. But maybe I'm biased. 

I actually like having both Link and Toon Link. They played very differently, with somewhat different projectiles and wildly different speeds. Link should have hit a little harder to compensate, but they did alright. (Seriously, arrows don't make people flinch?) Toon Link is ridiculously mobile, while Link plays very defensively.

As far as clones go, there really aren't a whole lot anymore. Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are probably the closest, and they're very different to play. Captain Falcon can recover and maneuver quickly, but his Falcon Punch is but a shadow of Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, which is almost impossible to land but can KO half the roster at 35%. I hope they have a little more differentiation next game, but the balancing team has made a pretty good effort to diverge each duplicate as the series progresses. (E.G. Mario and Luigi are now almost entirely different.)

[Neonivek]

I actually like having both Link and Toon Link. They played very differently, with somewhat different projectiles and wildly different speeds

The problem in the end was that Toon Link was outright better because he didn't have any of the gimmicks added just because his game had it. Making him much more balanced and well thought out then his counterpart.

They didn't play differently, Toon Link played the way normal Link should have been played.

Toon Link is ridiculously mobile, while Link plays very defensively

Which is funny because Toon Link does everything better then Link. Even defensive play. It is even more funny because Toon Link doesn't even use his moveset from his own games!

Here is my opinion on Link. He is the true Average character of the series or rather the Vanilla character. He to me represents the most rounded character in the game even more so then Mario is. Brawl actually managed to make him worse, not by much though.

For Toon Link he is the exact same character with the attributes moves around and any difference between him and Link tends to end with "Young Link's is better". When I compare him to Vaati or even Ganon I see the lost potential for a character.

You know what... Throw out Toon Link I want some Ganon action. I mean SURE Ganon is just Ganondorf in a different timeline but he is entirely different then Ganondorf (heck Ganon's signature weapon is a spear and Ganondorf's is a Sword)

Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are probably the closest, and they're very different to play

The biggest issue with Ganondorf is that he uses a moveset that is unlike anything he uses in the games. It is why a lot of people want the main villain of F-Zero so they can give his moveset to him while Ganondorf gets his own.

He mostly plays like an extremely slow Captain Falcon.

[Alkhemia]

I just want a Monster Hunter Character   

[SirAaronIII]

I just want a Monster Hunter Character 

Not gonna happen I think, the Monster Hunter team doesn't want their characters in Marvel vs. Capcom, so it's not likely they'd want them in another fighting game. Plus the hunter is just so customizable, so there's not really anyone they can put.


...Cha-cha?

[Neonivek]

the Monster Hunter team doesn't want their characters

Well no specifically they don't want the "PC" to be a character... and Monster Hunter is utterly devoid of any other viable character.

[Heron TSG]

Toon Link is ridiculously mobile, while Link plays very defensively

Which is funny because Toon Link does everything better then Link. Even defensive play. It is even more funny because Toon Link doesn't even use his moveset from his own games!

No. Toon Link is all about offense. He has nothing even resembling Link's short-hop Zair Slide spacer, the ridiculousness of Gale Guarding, or the incredible surprise DACUS that Link has. (One of the best in the game, if predictable.) Link has the weight and a slow enough air speed to bomb jump as recovery, a pretty good tether that can stop smashes off the sides, and much better reach on his anti-air game. Toon Link, on the other hand, is constantly attacking from different directions, leaping through the air, riding his sword to cancel momentum, and throwing (and rethrowing) bombs constantly. His boomerang is more of a poke instead of stage control, but he has to rely more on evasion than proper spacing. Toon Link does better than Link in tournaments because what he does well (moving and attacking quickly) is more relevant to the metagame than what Link does well. Not because Toon Link does what Link does but better.

Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are probably the closest, and they're very different to play

The biggest issue with Ganondorf is that he uses a moveset that is unlike anything he uses in the games. It is why a lot of people want the main villain of F-Zero so they can give his moveset to him while Ganondorf gets his own.

He mostly plays like an extremely slow Captain Falcon.

Ganondorf could use some more unique moves, but even as is he plays nothing like Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon is faster, but Ganondorf has many more windows for cancels, weird moves, and even an infinite recovery. Captain Falcon doesn't having anything like Thunderstorming, and he can't Ganoncide. (Thunderstorming being Ganondorf's semi-infinite short-hop-down-aerial chain. You hop up once then cancel the fall with more aerials.)  Ganondorf has a much lower required percentage ratio per stock, too. He can take a lot more punishment as he attacks and still come out ahead. (Especially with Warlock Punch Super Jump recovery off the side of the stage.) Ganondorf only has to land a solid hit two to four times, less if you let him jab you. On the face of it, their movesets are very similar. But with how the actual game mechanics work, Ganondorf is a much more technical character to play. Captain Falcon jabs, runs around, and uses smash attacks and aerials with abandon. A Ganondorf player (like my brother) must predict like a champ.

[Neonivek]

Toon Link does better than Link in tournaments because what he does well (moving and attacking quickly) is more relevant to the metagame than what Link does well

The Metagame is ruled by defensiveness. Toon Link's speed and offensive ability translates directly into his defensive power.

While Link's clunkyness only works against him in the end.

He has nothing even resembling Link's short-hop Zair Slide spacer

Ahh yes the short hop exploit.

the ridiculousness of Gale Guarding

At the sacrifice of the much better thing Toon Link has.

Ganondorf could use some more unique moves, but even as is he plays nothing like Captain Falcon.

Neither did Dr. Mario.

Moving around stats does not a new character make.

" A Ganondorf player (like my brother) must predict like a champ"

Kind of a shame he is broken (in a bad way) in Brawl. One of the few characters in the game who can just outright lose against a good enough player. Mostly because they took out all of the tools he needed.

"Thunderstorming being Ganondorf's semi-infinite short-hop-down-aerial chain"

Exploit, exploit... Not intended function.

It isn't a good argument to go "Yeah these characters are totally different! Their moves are exactly the same but function slightly differently, as well one of them has exploits that the other doesn't because of the different timing"

So yeah Dr. Mario... He certainly didn't play anything like Mario... Ohh and don't forget Falco, he didn't play anything like Fox in Melee either. They were still both clones that needed to be made unique or removed.

Now I am aware of Ganondorf's unique moves (he has a few). Yet it still isn't his own moveset. Ganondorf doesn't fight like he does in the game (the only move people say is uniquely Ganondorf is Forward+B).

Ganondorf isn't going to be decloned for one reason: Sakurai likes to play him and his current self is very popular. Yet that is the only reason to keep it that way. Which is a big shame because I actually like Ganondorf.

---

Though ultimately I don't want any clones in Smash Bros and there is no reason to have any.

It is unfortunate that the two most imprinted Clones (Small Link and Ganondorf) aren't going to get removed/decloned because of their lingering popularity within the game. Even in Street Fighter did they unclone Ken.

[bulborbish]

Real Quick input on characters.

First off, NO SSB64 will be removed. Period. They are iconic to the original cast, and the fact that many of them are getting re-releases of their games (or are extremely popular, such as Jigglypuff) protects them from removal.

Second off, Marth Will stay regardless, though it is likely that either the second fire emblem slot will be dropped or Ike will be replaced by Chrom. Similarly, the Mewtwo pokemon slot will likely be dropped from Lucario and go to a gen V pokemon.

Third, Characters whose games are getting re-releases are unlikely to lose their slots, as to promote the re-release. This means that Wind Waker Link will likely keep his slot.

Finally for old characters, the characters who serve an integral part of their series, or are likely to see a new game in their series, will not be cut, either to promote their series or the new game.

For adding new characters, remember that

- Characters for third party stand the best chance if they are more modern characters (which can have a reasonable fighting set)
- Characters that star in one game are extremely unlikely.
- Characters that have a old series that is not offered on the Virtual Console are unlikely to be chosen.
- Characters owned by a primary competitor to Nintendo (i.e. Sony, Microsoft) or by one of their project teams will almost certainly not appear.
- If the character has never appeared on a Nintendo Game console, then they will not appear.

Also, as a note, there is no reason to discuss Brawl Tournament Balance in the thread about SSBWiiU/3DS, especially as the balance will be tweaked by the time the game comes out.

[Neonivek]

though it is likely that either the second fire emblem slot will be dropped or Ike will be replaced by Chrom.

It is a big debate right now as to whether or not Ike will return. Mostly because Ike's moveset really worked within the game. Being the best heavy character, without exploits, the series had had up to this point.

- Characters for third party stand the best chance if they are more modern characters (which can have a reasonable fighting set)

Doesn't Megaman go against this?

[Toaster]

Don't forget MM9 and 10 on Wii Play Ware.

[Neonivek]

Don't forget MM9 and 10 on Wii Play Ware.

They were specifically made to be "retro" or rather to look like an old game.

[bulborbish]

- Characters for third party stand the best chance if they are more modern characters (which can have a reasonable fighting set)

Doesn't Megaman go against this?

Megaman is still modern in that he has current games. I was more referring to the multitude of suggestions on putting in third party characters who were from games released 17 years ago (GENOOOOO) which really don't have much modern relevance.

And to pre-empt the question, yes Geno is owned by Square Enix, thus his inclusion would mean a Third Party Character.

[Neonivek]

And to pre-empt the question, yes Geno is owned by Square Enix, thus his inclusion would mean a Third Party Character

In Sakurai's own words his status is unknown and they don't know the legality of using him again. As well he is as much a "third party" as Sora is for Squarenix. It is why some people describe characters like Geno and Sora as 2.5 Party characters (or 2nd party characters)

I certainly do want Geno, I just don't think he has a chance.

Brawl was pretty much the last chance.