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[wierd]

I think there should be a separate category from RPG for blatant wish fulfillment simulators.


An RPG is a ROLE playing game, where you assume a ROLE-- Too often, that role is "I save the world! WHEE!!", but in traditional senses of the genre, it is supposed to be "I am just another X, living in a world where X is common, and I have to interact with this world to survive." EG, the sun does not rise and set in your bum; the world is an active part of the play, and how the player interacts with that world has consequences for the player.

Blatant wish fulfillment simulators use the world as window dressing for the key feature: wish fulfillment. ANYTHING that gets in the way of that (like those nasty consequences!) detracts from that, and is bad/avoided/glossed over.

[Chiefwaffles]

Seems like you just want a simulation game, because it feels like your description of "wish fulfillment simulator" is every RPG ever.
And language - including terms like "RPG" - is what people make if it, after all.

[wierd]

Dungeons and Dragons (and many of the computer games created based on it, like the original Baldur's Gate games for PC), is a genuine RPG, where you have a character who plays a role in the world. They are not all powerful, cannot become all powerful, and the actions they undertake cause consequences later. The world is an active part of the game.

Compare with EG, modern fantasy wish fulfillment simulators, like Bethesda's recent titles (post morrowind, because going full muderhobo in that game DID HAVE CONSEQUENCES, like not being able to complete the main quest.)-- I am fairly sure there would be little if any consequence at all if I decided to just massacre all the people living in my settlements in say, fallout 4.

Clearly, these are NOT the same kind of game-- but dilution of the term "RPG", has caused this to be considered the case. Which was exactly the point I was making.

[NullForceOmega]

To be fair weird, AD&D has always had the possibility for player characters to do such things as usurp the thrones and offices of gods, as far back as the oldest published adventures in fact.

Your point still stands however, that the modern lexicon of gamers has diluted the meaning of RPG from the concept of being a character in a world, and replaced it with the concept of some imaginary set of level up and stat mechanics that have nothing more to do with what we would view as an RPG than being a system to define the characters we are playing.

[wierd]

But doing so is not all roses, candy, and sunshine. The DM will give them all kinds of grief for it.

[NullForceOmega]

Oh hell yes, and the suffering and choices would be very, very real.  (Insofar as your emotional attachment to the world and NPCs/PCs in it allows.)

[AzyWng]

Seems like you just want a simulation game, because it feels like your description of "wish fulfillment simulator" is every RPG ever.

This could be extended up to every computer game ever.

Simcity, Cities: Skylines, any other city-building game. Wanna construct and manage your very own city? Now you can!

Call of Duty, Battlefield, any other FPS. Wanna fight and die without actually fighting and dying? Knock yourself out!

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare and Mirage: Arcane Warfare, any other medieval-era FPS. Ditto, but with knights and swords in place of soldiers and guns? Sure!

Fire Emblem, XCOM, any other turn-based strategy. Wanna manage your team and lead it to victory? Go right on ahead!

Dead Rising, Dying Light, Death Road to Canada, any other game with zombies in it. Wanna mangle and be mangled horrifically without actually mangling and being mangled? Do it!

Minecraft, Terraria, any other building game. Wanna construct your very own castle, piece by piece? Do what you want!

I don't know if it was your intent, but you make "wish fulfilment simulator" seem like such a bad thing, when I personally love at least half of the games listed.

[Shadowlord]

Dominions 4: Wish Is An Actual Spell Which You Will Probably Never Cast In Multiplayer

[AzyWng]

Ok, so the games have their wrinkles, sure, but still

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Clearly, these are NOT the same kind of game-- but dilution of the term "RPG", has caused this to be considered the case. Which was exactly the point I was making.

Seems to be true of a lot of game genres.  Especially 'Action Adventure'.

[wierd]

Missing the point azzy.

People play fantasy games, to have some kind of a fantastic experience-- this is indeed a form of wish fulfillment.

However, much like using a monkey paw to grant a wish-- an actual RPG gives consequences and depth to that wish.  "I want to be a wizard!" is the fantasy wish fulfillment (or at least, one possible one) of sword and sorcery type RPGs like D&D. You get that after doing character creation. Yay. You are a wizard. Hooray. Do you want to play the actual game now? I thought so-- What does a Wizard DO-- How does a wizard interact with a world where magic exists?  THAT is the actual game-- Getting to experience the amazing and fun stuff that happens from being a wizard.

Now, compare to being the arch-mage in say, Skyrim.  Once you attain the office, then what? NADA. You get some fancy robes, a nice decor room with sparkly lights and plants in it... and all the students just acknowledge you as archmage. But do you have any duties to attend to that are any different than when you were a mere apprentice there? Not really. Do you have to do any performance reviews, or settle any disputes between the teachers in the college? No. What exactly is the POINT of attaining the position?  Oh-- Right- Empty wish fulfillment!

[Shadowlord]

My reaction upon becoming archmage in Skyrim was
"I'm Trebonius! Damn you, Bethesda!"

[Sergius]

I have a pet peeve, tho I'm sure a lot of people find awesome.

Instead of describing the type of game, I'll use an example: State of Decay. It's got pretty neat mechanics about building and settling and upgrading and surviving and scavenging, but stuff will simply run out so that you basically have to stop dawdling with all that crafting/management nonsense and just win the damn game.

I find it a shame that I can't just play that thing forever and ignore the main plot. Or at least give me an alternate "endless mode" after I finish the game once or something.

[AzyWng]

I have a pet peeve, tho I'm sure a lot of people find awesome.

Instead of describing the type of game, I'll use an example: State of Decay. It's got pretty neat mechanics about building and settling and upgrading and surviving and scavenging, but stuff will simply run out so that you basically have to stop dawdling with all that crafting/management nonsense and just win the damn game.

It's in the title: Decay.

While I've never played the game, it would be rather difficult to create new things with a zombie apocalypse as an example.

Though endless modes for games like that would be nice. I wonder if they have one for XCOM (old or new)...

[Sergius]

The title or the intentions of the developers is of no consequence to my peeve.

Plus that just sounds like a case of "selective realism", I don't say things should be created or that there should be an operative lumber mill selling brand new materials to apocalypse survivors. But in the same vein, zombies would also run out (it's state of Decay, not state of Humpin' Rabbit Breedin' Zombies).

If pieces of wood to upgrade buildings can run out, then people living in such a small town also should run out. Heck, there should be more wood than people in any given house. I don't think anyone is out there creating more new zombies either and just shipping them to apocalypse town.