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[Calidovi]

barren land

Yeah very barren... except all that non-barren stuff.

No, I mean barren as in how the level design is very linear and feels empty of life. Not in a literal sense.

[Rolan7]

It really confuses me that so many people feel that way.  There must be *something* about the game which makes people think that, but I honestly can't see it.

Shouldn't be a point of conflict, though.  Some people love the game, some people it just doesn't work for.  It's really more interesting than infuriating, at least to me.

[Neonivek]

It really confuses me that so many people feel that way.  There must be *something* about the game which makes people think that, but I honestly can't see it.

Shouldn't be a point of conflict, though.  Some people love the game, some people it just doesn't work for.  It's really more interesting than infuriating, at least to me.

It is because the game doesn't hide it by vast landscapes and open areas with nothing inside them.

It isn't Twilight Princess

[Calidovi]

It really confuses me that so many people feel that way.  There must be *something* about the game which makes people think that, but I honestly can't see it.

Shouldn't be a point of conflict, though.  Some people love the game, some people it just doesn't work for.  It's really more interesting than infuriating, at least to me.

It is because the game doesn't hide it by vast landscapes and open areas with nothing inside them.

It isn't Twilight Princess

Honestly, I'd prefer it if they didn't make the design so linear. If they just faked it I'd have been fine.

[Krevsin]

I prefer a straight up linear game to a game that tries and fails at a less linear level design, personally.

[Neonivek]

Went on Heroes of the Storm and was constantly trolled about how bad I was with Asmodon (Report button AWAY! I hope they get banned)

About how only good players build his fireball attack... and all that stuff (actually I wasn't that bad, they were frustrated because they weren't as good at the enemy team)

But here is one that isn't exclusive to MOBAs. In fact Early Diablo 2 did this a lot.

Many Paths of advancement, only one worthwhile!

To an extent there not being balance is fine, and honestly somewhat you are supposed to be balancing the pros and cons of going down a certain path of advancement. Heck in some games the "not as good at the others" can even become a feature as it is less about trying to gain an early game advantage but more trying to beat the game as that specific character (as long as the game is transparent about it).

But goodness does it hurt when a game basically gives you three REALLY attractive options... but only one is any good and the others are such trash that putting any interest into it is just a waste of time. Hurts more the more attractive the other paths are and the more boring the "Only good path" is.

[RoguelikeRazuka]

How about female sexuality being intensely featured in games? Does it count as a gaming pet peeve? I mean, there's no bad thing in having a good-looking woman as a main character (since the ones are meant to be attractive to a majority of players in some way), but they are often shown pretty much sexualized if not blatantly half naked (see Quiet from MGS 5). And sometimes it seems like any game grows much better after pretty girls' getting involved in it, though it likely would be not that essential to the game.

[nenjin]

How about cute girls' being intensely featured in games? I mean, there's no bad thing in a good-looking female main character (since the ones are meant to be attractive to a majority of players), but they are often shown pretty much sexualized if not blatantly half naked (see Quiet from MGS 5). And sometimes it seems like any game can grow much better after pretty girls get involved in it, though it'd be not that essential to the game.

Less a gaming pet peeve for me, and more a general "Western Media" pet peeve. Sex sells, historically and currently, and will continue to. I mean....all the Anime dating games are based on the premise.

[SealyStar]

"Western Media"

Anime dating games

What?

[Neonivek]

Yeah sorry but the sexified female protagonist is a VERY Eastern games thing.

I mean there is Dungeon Keeper 2 and Blade Kitten (I THINK that was Western) and there are a few others... Mortal Kombat 9 had Melina (Not that the game had issues with breasts being WAY TOO FREEKEN large and the female characters's appearances being so sexualized that they actually looked grotesque)... Duke Nukem is another.

But generally speaking Western Games tend to have a very "They are sexy, get over it" attitude to sexy female protagonists, no matter how sexy or provocative. Heck the main exceptions are games about sexiness or where the sexiness is mainly the joke.

Versus J-game "SEXY LOOK AT THE SEX EAT THE SEX!!!" ever so subtly... and by subtly I mean they perfected the technology so that all women in their videogames can look like their breasts were inflated with extra jiggly jello pudding. And these games can be games for children (Thanks Magic Pengel with the giant pogosticking woman with super jiggly breasts!)

[SealyStar]

Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of Western games with completely tasteless sexuality, and plenty of Japanese games with mature, tasteful sexuality, but the "sexy outfits sexy women LOOK AT IT" trope is visibly more common in Japanese media.

[Calidovi]

Yeah sorry but the sexified female protagonist is a VERY Eastern games thing.

I mean there is Dungeon Keeper 2 and Blade Kitten (I THINK that was Western) and there are a few others... Mortal Kombat 9 had Melina (Not that the game had issues with breasts being WAY TOO FREEKEN large and the female characters's appearances being so sexualized that they actually looked grotesque)... Duke Nukem is another.

But generally speaking Western Games tend to have a very "They are sexy, get over it" attitude to sexy female protagonists, no matter how sexy or provocative. Heck the main exceptions are games about sexiness or where the sexiness is mainly the joke.

Versus J-game "SEXY LOOK AT THE SEX EAT THE SEX!!!" ever so subtly... and by subtly I mean they perfected the technology so that all women in their videogames can look like their breasts were inflated with extra jiggly jello pudding. And these games can be games for children (Thanks Magic Pengel with the giant pogosticking woman with super jiggly breasts!)

Where's that post about the oppai-kaiju effect when you need it the most.

Anyway, I think we'd all benefit if you elaborate on your point about Western media's attitude towards sexuality in this case.

[Neonivek]

It is hard to explain because, well, I am a westerner. Yet I guess what we had is an evolved idea of the car show model. She looks beautiful and highlights all the right features of the car, but at the end of the day we want to drive the car... she isn't the feature. So even when you have a sexy protagonist you don't want to see her "act sexy" because that is dumb, you want to see her be badass. Basically in many ways it is the bait and switch.

So what a lot of games do is what I originally called "She has boobs, get over it" which was my way of explaining how the Tomb Raider series (not the posters and cover art) handled Lara Croft. In that she had incredibly large breasts but the camera angles didn't really focus on them, she was never really defined by her sexiness, nor did she suffer from sexy wounds. You have a lot of games where the women are wearing incredibly scant clothing but as far as the game is concerned "Who cares?". The games usually don't draw attention to it except to make a joke. Even in the cover art while usually... revealing... there is usually some sense of power or competence.

In fact western games that do have present sexy women to ogle tend to be comedies OR are comical characters. Conkers Bad Furday, Dungeon Keeper 2, Duke Nukem, and heck Milena while not in a comedic game was clearly not someone you were meant to take seriously. Excessive sexuality is usually something you are not meant to take seriously... OR is meant to be something to make you drop your guard (The Dark Mistress from Dungeon Keeper are one of the strongest creatures in the game. In spite being latex wearing dominatrixes). Even the Latex wearing nuns from Hitman were meant to be "Deadly clowns", the creators just weren't able to pull it off.

That is my best attempt to explain it.

In fact it is probably one of the largest differences between Western and Japanese games...

A woman you are supposed to ogle at... tends to be a joke in the west but is a serious character in Japan. Their outright objectification isn't considered a detriment to the Japanese while in the west outright overt objectification tends to be looked upon unfavorably on the character...

Unfortunately this also means that "Prostitute" characters get no respect in Western games for the most part (Remember. Outright "Objectified" women are not to be taken seriously) as well. While Japan tends to avoid prostitutes. Sure there are exceptions (Heavy Rain is a HUGE one... Damn!) but for the most part yeah...

Now there is also a difference between being the active sexual object versus the passive one and how subtle you are.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

---

There is a reason why I think the Old Lara Croft is better than the new one... even with her old looks... Mostly has to do with the fact that Old Lara Croft was considered unequivocatively awesome while the new one cries her way through her game because "She is a woman and thusely must PROVE she is awesome" the new modern day garbage I hate...

You know as horrible and sexist as the old videogame designs are... I'd take them any day over the new modern day garbage of women needing to prove themselves. I'll take 20 chainmail bikini women who kick butt, take names, and are in charge of their lives over one female character who cries, and sobs, and gets hurt, and must prove she can make it in a man's world.

---

Though I am going to disambiguate to exclude those webgames... They are clearly a subculture altogether and frankly... everyone knows they are horrible.

[nenjin]

"Western Media"

Anime dating games

What?

Western media pushes sex in a lot of parts of advertising.

AND

Anime Dating games are based around the premise of sexy girls.

The two statements weren't linked, but I can see where you came away with that.

And just to note, the East no longer can claim all erogi or hentai or w/e games as solely its purvey. There are plenty of Western game makers that ape the style now.

Milena

And Jade, Kitana, Sonya Blade, Sindel, Tanya, Li Mei, Nitara. The list goes on. Hell, they even put Sheeva in a onesy with a swooping v-cut, and she has four arms. MKII started the whole sexy female thing and it has just continued since then.

I think you seriously underestimate the attraction of it to the average male gamer. I liked to test the guys I played MMOs with, or any game where they'd opt to play female characters. I'd ask them why. And at least 50% of the time the answer I'd get was "If I'm going to spend this much time staring at a character, I want to be looking at some T&A."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

---

There is a reason why I think the Old Lara Croft is better than the new one... even with her old looks... Mostly has to do with the fact that Old Lara Croft was considered unequivocatively awesome while the new one cries her way through her game because "She is a woman and thusely must PROVE she is awesome" the new modern day garbage I hate...

You know as horrible and sexist as the old videogame designs are... I'd take them any day over the new modern day garbage of women needing to prove themselves. I'll take 20 chainmail bikini women who kick butt, take names, and are in charge of their lives over one female character who cries, and sobs, and gets hurt, and must prove she can make it in a man's world.

---

I'm sort of mixed on this. You can argue that "strong females who kick butt with clear, uncompromising violence while also being hot" is exactly what guys wanted. It plays to the male conception of what's awesome: hotness and acting like a male. You can argue that today's portrayals of women are distinctly feminine. They express the need of today's women to defend themselves and prove they're just as capable as men in a man's world, but according to their values and emotions and priorities vs. what male culture prioritizes. It's representative of the struggles they feel they're going through now. Meanwhile, guys don't like crying, they don't like second guessing themselves, they don't like indecision. So older portrayals ala Conan Women can be considered not really female. They're male idealized versions of hot chicks, ones they don't find embarrassing or weak or tedious or vulnerable.

[itisnotlogical]

Exit stage left

One thing that bothers me about Mass Effect, Human Revolution, Knights of the Old Republic, certain MMOs, etc. is when dialogue ends and an NPC casually strolls off to the right or left... only to vanish into the ether as soon as you have control again, not a trace to be found. As much as I dislike Skyrim conversations, at least NPCs don't disappear into the negaverse as soon as you say goodbye to them.