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[UXLZ]

Thankfully that Divinity spoiler was something I already kiiinda knew.

The concept of Divinity is fine, but

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

you know that alternate plane thing right, where the Weaver of Time is? You get to that place way too quickly. I ended up visiting it I think before I even got my second level. At which point the Weaver of Time is like 'I don't normally speak to people but you're so incredible and special and everything going on revolves around you so I will'. It just doesn't feel special because it comes into play right at the beginning. I can see it being more interesting if there's a major twist later on that I haven't reached yet, but the place just doesn't feel... Important, y'know? I dunno, maybe I've gotten spoiled by the amazing pacing and major twist in Tales of Symphonia. God that game was incredible.

Basically, I dislike games with bad pacing.

[itisnotlogical]

I dislike it when the course of a game can be changed by something that is not immediately obvious.

In KOTOR 2, I can't really play a female character and enjoy myself because female characters don't get the Handmaiden as a party member; they get the Disciple, a much less interesting character mechanics-wise and a very weak contribution to the story (basically no interesting dialogue AFAIK... but don't spoil it if there is ).

It's bad because the female Exile has much more interesting and funny dialogue choices than her male counterpart, in PC-gender-specific situations anyway. There's a mod so that both genders can access both party members, but then the dialogue would refer to your character being male or female when that is not the case.

[UXLZ]

Dialogue specific to the Handmaiden or does it screw up the dialogue throughout the entire game?

If it's just the Handmaiden, mod it in and get over it. You can pretend that people sometimes think the Exile is male due to its reality-warping. xD
Pretend you're playing a Nyarlathotep.

[Neonivek]

Basically, I dislike games with bad pacing.

Yeah... and Divinity is basically the patron god of bad pacing in videogames.

[itisnotlogical]

Dialogue specific to the Handmaiden or does it screw up the dialogue throughout the entire game?

If it's just the Handmaiden, mod it in and get over it. You can pretend that people sometimes think the Exile is male due to its reality-warping. xD
Pretend you're playing a Nyarlathotep.

I'd assume it's just Handmaiden-specific lines, but I don't really know. But I already made a male character and I'm most of the way through Citadel Station, I'm not going to go through all of that tedium again any time soon.

[Neonivek]

Ok here is mine

Proving a woman is tough

I don't get games obsession with forcing female protagonists and characters and making them prove they are strong and capable characters... it doesn't bug me that games have a character that must get strong over time, it is just that games that do it with female protagonists, you can REALLY tell they aren't going "Well she isn't a combatant, she was a secretary the entire time" but rather "She is a woman, and as a woman the expectation of YOU THE VIEWER is that she is a pathetic weakling. So we will have to prove it first".

At which my response is "Get with the times! We don't need you to prove women can be capable combatants..."

It helps my point that these games usually focus more on the fact that they are women and less on the fact that they are PEOPLE who aren't capable.

which steps into

But she is a woman and isn't meant for war and strife


Dear goodness videogames they are women, not some alien species from some pacifism planet. In all fairness this is more common in JRPGs and is INCREDIBLY uncommon in more western media... Heck this is extremely common in Animes (and has started having resurgences because JRPGs are on a trend of trying to be like Animes even more strongly).

I have never EVER seen this plotline done with a male character in a videogame. No matter how weak or meek they are it is always their journey to become a strong capable hero rather then to "be at peace, because they were forced to fight and it is a horror that they ever had to raise a sword".

Not that I haven't seen this story done really well or right. But most of the time it just seems like cheap characterization that is just insulting because it goes by the assumption that the typical woman state is to be a white flower on a bed of virgin snow.

[Darkmere]

So I wanted to state the obvious and add Terrible Console Ports since Fable was mentioned, even though I'm a bit late to the discussion. Having a loading screen after every room was infuriating to me when my computer can easily handle huge open world games. I realize the game was old but comon...

[UXLZ]

Are you talking about the Original or Anniversary Edition (blerch).
I remember Lost Scrolls being good. There were quite a few loading screens, but I remember them being short.

[Shadowlord]

Ok here is mine

Proving a woman is tough
But she is a woman and isn't meant for war and strife

We must play some completely different games, because I think the only game I've ever seen anything remotely like this is (the recent) Tomb Raider.

[Neonivek]

Ok here is mine

Proving a woman is tough
But she is a woman and isn't meant for war and strife

We must play some completely different games, because I think the only game I've ever seen anything remotely like this is (the recent) Tomb Raider.

Its thankfully rarer today.

[Cthulufaic]

Ok here is mine

Proving a woman is tough
But she is a woman and isn't meant for war and strife

Yeah, this bugs me a bit too, but I think that most games you're talking about make female party characters integral to the plot somehow, like Aeris/Aerith from FF7 or Marle from Chrono Trigger.
Then again, the only JRPGs I have are Chrono Trigger and Persona 3 Portable, so I could just be talking out my ass right now.

[UXLZ]

Oh SMT games, oh how your console exclusivity makes me cry.

[Neonivek]

Ok here is mine

Proving a woman is tough
But she is a woman and isn't meant for war and strife

Yeah, this bugs me a bit too, but I think that most games you're talking about make female party characters integral to the plot somehow, like Aeris/Aerith from FF7 or Marle from Chrono Trigger.
Then again, the only JRPGs I have are Chrono Trigger and Persona 3 Portable, so I could just be talking out my ass right now.

I don't feel like Aeris or Marle fit that. SURE Marle had to prove she is tough... but she never had to prove it to the player. We knew she was tough and we knew one of the major reasons why no one else thought she was, was because she was an irresponsible often bratty teenage princess who often shirked responsibility and went on flights of fancy.

While Aeris I guess counts... But the game is filled with so many other strong female protagonists that her femininity never stems from it. It never feels like the game uses her gender as an excuse. Sure she is a gendered archtype, but the game follows her story and easily could gender flip her without changing how the game would have handled her.

Also SURE Aeris also had to prove she is tough and FORCE Cloud to take her along... but that is because Cloud is a soldier and Aeris is a civilian... and Cloud never refuses other female help... that and Aeris sort of acts almost like a child at that point.

Heck Leon in Star Ocean 2 sort of has that aspect of "Should we really let him join our team" but puts it at a good time where "Its either that or leave him to monsters".

This occurs more often in the Tales games.

[UXLZ]

I would have sworn her name was Aerith. I can see Aeris being an alternate spelling from Japanese romanisation though.

[Funk]

What bugs me is the idea that  all women that fight must do so in

A) A chain mail bikini,
B) A form fitting space suit
Or just plane old Fetish wear.

it's just dumb and reeks of sexism. 

If i was in charge of call of duty advanced warfare, i'd of given the player a big ass cyborg mech guy for back up, 7 feet tall covered in armor with a built in arm gun and pulled a Samus Is A Girl switch at the end and the thing is that would probably fill a few inches of new print.

I just want more of this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

than this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)