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[vaaern]

Multiplayer games without bots!

I remember the last time I properly played a game online, it was like 12 years ago I think. Unreal tournament. I loved the crap out of that game, but as I didn't have a good internet connection, I could just use bots. Nowadays, I'm 24, and I can't hit 1 person in a freaking multiplayer (COD, GTA, etc.), just because I never played multiplayer games properly in those 12 years, please let me play against bots. If you're bragging about how brilliant the AI in your game is, just put bots in there. And not like black ops, where you still had to be online to play against bots. Not everyone has a permanent internet connection. I honestly cry every time I try an online game (especially shooters).

It's really nerve wrecking that 10 year olds are playing a game they shouldn't be playing and still beat the crap out of me, at least I could configure those bots to how strong/weak I wanted them to be, which is really good for self confidence.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

Totally agree with that one, varren. In most multiplayer games I like to play with the hardest bots for about 2-5 hours so I can get a hand of most of the mechanics so I'm not completely useless to my team when I join a MP game. I have to admit I haven't even played a multiplayer game of CS:GO because I find I'm having trouble remembering with all the recoil mechanics of all the different guns (although I think I'm pretty decent with the pistols, in particular the Five-seven).

I found that a lot of the smaller multiplayer shooters that come out, such as Nuclear Dawn, reall suffer when they don't have a small offline segment for players to familiarise themselves. I really see it as a must.

[scrdest]

Totally agree with that one, varren. In most multiplayer games I like to play with the hardest bots for about 2-5 hours so I can get a hand of most of the mechanics so I'm not completely useless to my team when I join a MP game. I have to admit I haven't even played a multiplayer game of CS:GO because I find I'm having trouble remembering with all the recoil mechanics of all the different guns (although I think I'm pretty decent with the pistols, in particular the Five-seven).

I found that a lot of the smaller multiplayer shooters that come out, such as Nuclear Dawn, reall suffer when they don't have a small offline segment for players to familiarise themselves. I really see it as a must.

Please, most games do have a mode for familiarizing the players before they start playing multiplayer. It's called the single-player campaign. Y'know, the things that used to be the main focus of games in days of yore.

[Graknorke]

Totally agree with that one, varren. In most multiplayer games I like to play with the hardest bots for about 2-5 hours so I can get a hand of most of the mechanics so I'm not completely useless to my team when I join a MP game. I have to admit I haven't even played a multiplayer game of CS:GO because I find I'm having trouble remembering with all the recoil mechanics of all the different guns (although I think I'm pretty decent with the pistols, in particular the Five-seven).

I found that a lot of the smaller multiplayer shooters that come out, such as Nuclear Dawn, reall suffer when they don't have a small offline segment for players to familiarise themselves. I really see it as a must.

Please, most games do have a mode for familiarizing the players before they start playing multiplayer. It's called the single-player campaign. Y'know, the things that used to be the main focus of games in days of yore.

But we're talking about multiplayer-based games, rather than singleplayer games.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

A lot of multiplayer games, in particular the smaller budgeted ones, lack a singleplayer campaign. Hell the Quake era of gaming was noted for basically having no concept of single player campaigns instead opting to have a series of offline multiplayer maps with progressively harder bots.

I personally also find it questionable that the concept of a singleplayer campaign gets you ready for a multiplayer experience. It doesn't teach you any of the "meta tactics" that are required nor really give you an idea of weapon balance and map design. I don't you can really sit there and argue that Call of Duty's campaign is meant to emulate a multiplayer match at all.

[vaaern]

Totally agree with that one, varren. In most multiplayer games I like to play with the hardest bots for about 2-5 hours so I can get a hand of most of the mechanics so I'm not completely useless to my team when I join a MP game. I have to admit I haven't even played a multiplayer game of CS:GO because I find I'm having trouble remembering with all the recoil mechanics of all the different guns (although I think I'm pretty decent with the pistols, in particular the Five-seven).

I found that a lot of the smaller multiplayer shooters that come out, such as Nuclear Dawn, reall suffer when they don't have a small offline segment for players to familiarise themselves. I really see it as a must.

Please, most games do have a mode for familiarizing the players before they start playing multiplayer. It's called the single-player campaign. Y'know, the things that used to be the main focus of games in days of yore.

Yes, That is true, though that doesn't cut it when I don't have a permanent internet connection and haven't played multiplayer games in 12 years. While it does help, it's still not close to any real human playing. For example, I beat Red dead redemption without almost any effort (mostly because I really liked it). But I couldn't score a kill in multiplayer, the smallest bird in the game from a long distance on a horse with one shot? No problem, a 10 year old standing still and reloading. Nope..

While this is really personal, I know that there are many others who feel this way. I'd rather lose against an overly hacked AI bot who can spot you even when you're not in sight then to a 10 year old who has all day to practice and swears more than a drunk homeless guy.

It's not always the mechanics, it's more like my aim is off because I've got less then zero experience in these things. On top of all that, Games like CoD (which I refuse to play anymore), tend to be overly stupid as it comes to fighting. Most of your team is shooting and running in front of you but not killing anyone, while you can do it for them, and they cannot die AND the enemies almost never shoot them (at least in my case). Ok, black ops did eventually add some sort of bots and while they felt overpowered, I still liked playing with them because I could set them as hard or easy as I wanted.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

It would be kinda cool if a game had AI settings Easy through Insane, and then behavior bars like Tactical, Kamikaze, Online, and Griefer. Online would be how people actually move and shoot online, using massive recordings of stuff in actual online matches. Griefer would be Online with the intent to screw you over and much as possible. Mines hidden under trash and under vending machines, spawncamping, your whole team is snipers not doing anything, teabagging, excessive use of flashbangs and smoke, etc. And they swear at you in text chat (voice chat if they could get away with it, I guess you could synth it but it would be more effective to get normal people to do voice acting work).

You know, really prepare you for the online experience.

[scrdest]

It would be kinda cool if a game had AI settings Easy through Insane, and then behavior bars like Tactical, Kamikaze, Online, and Griefer. Online would be how people actually move and shoot online, using massive recordings of stuff in actual online matches. Griefer would be Online with the intent to screw you over and much as possible. Mines hidden under trash and under vending machines, spawncamping, your whole team is snipers not doing anything, teabagging, excessive use of flashbangs and smoke, etc. And they swear at you in text chat (voice chat if they could get away with it, I guess you could synth it but it would be more effective to get normal people to do voice acting work).

You know, really prepare you for the online experience.

That's an amusing idea. Someone should make that. Although in addition, I'd love an Action Hero behavior, utilizing excessive number of flashy tricks and with unlimited ammo and double the health.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

That would be cool. I intended Kamikaze to be more "melee only" but it could include grenading at your own feet, standing on a mine, etc.

For a true melee-only I'd go with Fast Zombie and Slow Zombie (which don't climb) and Berserker (will climb, use doors, etc).

Or you could have a set of sliders to customize your own AI behavior. They do that in NWN2, and almost certainly others, where it determines how often an NPC will use magic items, try to disarm traps on their own, etc.

(That's a lot of etc)

The sliders would be easy to implement if you got it working in the first place; after all, the stuff running in the background is using that code anyway.

[scrdest]

That would be cool. I intended Kamikaze to be more "melee only" but it could include grenading at your own feet, standing on a mine, etc.

For a true melee-only I'd go with Fast Zombie and Slow Zombie (which don't climb) and Berserker (will climb, use doors, etc).

Or you could have a set of sliders to customize your own AI behavior. They do that in NWN2, and almost certainly others, where it determines how often an NPC will use magic items, try to disarm traps on their own, etc.

(That's a lot of etc)

The sliders would be easy to implement if you got it working in the first place; after all, the stuff running in the background is using that code anyway.

I'd imagine Kamikaze as what I tended to do when my silly phase kicked in in FPSes: running with a live (not cooked, just removed pin) grenade so that when I get shot it falls on the ground and explodes (in a game with that feature); running with knives; spray & pray while charging blindly, that kinda thing. Ignoring the /D in K/D.

I forgot the most important part of Action Hero behavior, namely one-liners. A must.

[Fniff]

Reminds me of Perfect Dark. That had various difficulty levels for AIs, but I think it included special behaviors. One thing could be "Meatgrinder", "Survival", and "Special Ops".

Meatgrinder is where all the enemies have no value of their own life and will just do their best to complete their objectives in a swarm. Again and again, using the same methods. This will probably result in a map with chokepoints having lots of corpses.

Survival is where the enemy prioritizes individual survival over the good of the team. So the majority of enemies run away when fired at, use sneaky tactics when trying to actually achieve objectives, and plenty of dirty tactics. So, a guerilla warfare bot.

Spec Ops is where the enemy has a quarter of it's team but is well-armed and has a good AI favored towards killing the minimal amount and achieving objectives.

The upside of a system like this would be that it could carry into the main story, having various groups and types of enemies with their own tactics and objectives.

[itisnotlogical]

Making it difficult to play the game as intended/advertised

This is what I just realized bothers me about Sonic and why I like the 3D Sonic games ever-so-slightly better than the 2D ones.

The entire point of Sonic is that he goes fast. His name is an allusion to a sonic boom, the cartoon theme song says "he is the fastest thing alive", etc. etc. But the stages actively make it difficult to play that way. On every other flat stretch of land, there's a spring that will bounce you in the opposite direction. If you weren't already, you'll now have to stop, scan the scene, and carefully jump over the bumper. This takes about six seconds every time, which really adds up in longer levels with a lot of such obstacles.

In the 3D Sonics, obstacles are welcome additions rather than flow-wrecking nuisances, since it's easier to see them coming (assuming the camera is working as intended). Ironically, Sonic CD plays the best out of the 2D Sonics (IMO) since you're already going slower to explore the levels better, assuming that you bother with the time-travel levels.

[mastahcheese]

I actually played some of the 3-D Sonic games before I ever played a 2-D one, and my first thought when trying one was "Who the frick thought this was a good idea?" and went back to my awesome 3-D sonic.

[Squill]

Making it difficult to play the game as intended/advertised

This is what I just realized bothers me about Sonic and why I like the 3D Sonic games ever-so-slightly better than the 2D ones.

The entire point of Sonic is that he goes fast. His name is an allusion to a sonic boom, the cartoon theme song says "he is the fastest thing alive", etc. etc. But the stages actively make it difficult to play that way. On every other flat stretch of land, there's a spring that will bounce you in the opposite direction. If you weren't already, you'll now have to stop, scan the scene, and carefully jump over the bumper. This takes about six seconds every time, which really adds up in longer levels with a lot of such obstacles.

In the 3D Sonics, obstacles are welcome additions rather than flow-wrecking nuisances, since it's easier to see them coming (assuming the camera is working as intended). Ironically, Sonic CD plays the best out of the 2D Sonics (IMO) since you're already going slower to explore the levels better, assuming that you bother with the time-travel levels.

This is the reason I don't like Sonic. To me, it's just not worth memorizing every level to be able to play as advertised.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

And they could offer a minimap, or a little flash at the side of the screen where an obstacle is coming, etc.