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[itisnotlogical]

I feel like I've already mentioned it here but I hate tiny enemies that run away from you. I'm playing Diablo 1 and the little imp-type enemies will trade blows with you for a second, then just walk away and make you chase them down. It's incredibly annoying because they're harmless even at level 1, running away is the only reason they don't die as soon as you see them.

I think the idea is that they're fleeing, but it's just kind of silly because nobody in D1 goes faster than a brisk trot. "Sir, please come back here, I am not done hitting you with my axe."

[Neonivek]

I feel like I've already mentioned it here but I hate tiny enemies that run away from you. I'm playing Diablo 1 and the little imp-type enemies will trade blows with you for a second, then just walk away and make you chase them down. It's incredibly annoying because they're harmless even at level 1, running away is the only reason they don't die as soon as you see them.

I think the idea is that they're fleeing, but it's just kind of silly because nobody in D1 goes faster than a brisk trot. "Sir, please come back here, I am not done hitting you with my axe."

I hate tiny characters in games where they avoid most attacks... by standing normally...

I've actually started to prefer them to be magically hit by normal attacks even if the hitbox wouldn't normally connect... it is just funner that way.

One way they TRY to balance small characters in MOST recent fighting games... is by making them rely on aerials to do the bulk of their damage and often by making their attacks give them a bigger hitbox.

[Sergius]

Fucking Timers.

Looking at Dead Rising 2 as a prime example. It sucks all the enjoyment out of the game and just stresses me out in a way a videogame should not. Also fuck you developers, let me just play the game, don't force me to play it a certain pace.

EDIT: What makes it so bad, is that usually the game mechanics and the timer are so fucking at odds. Like Dead Rising, where all you want to do is kill zombies in fun, new ways, but it takes a long ass time to build weapons, explore and generally do missions when all I really want to be doing is slaying some putrid, green ass.

100% agreed, that's why I always run the game with Cheat Engine set to freeze the clock, temporarily resuming it only so that more survivors can appear.

[Neonivek]

Even if a game is great... I am not sure it is possible to make the timer not a pet peeve. (other than making it pointless)

I think it is just human nature.

[Rolan7]

Star Control 2 is a rare exception in my opinion.  But there were a lot of good things about that timer:
It was a *lot* of time, honestly.
Yet it wasn't pointless, because it started having effects long before the "end".  Races both near and far would start mentioning how worried they were, with increasing alarm.  I'm pretty sure it's the root cause of the Pkunk migration, which happens very early and shows the player that the galaxy isn't static- the zones of control can move, and they flash helpfully when they do.  And it means something important is happening.

You also get some significant reprieves on said clock by exploring and making allies - your official "mission".  Not to mention better and better info on what the threat *is*, and exactly how it might be stopped.

And if you still get low enough on time...  You actually get rewarded for *that*.  You can skip several potentially-lengthy quests by letting the bad thing start, and scooping the macguffins off the ruined planets.  There's some uniquely tragic dialogue, too.
(Reminds me of an UT genocide run, particularly since you really have to go out of your way to wait that long)

So I think that's an example of it done right, though it's much more than a simple timer.  It's more that the main quest progresses on its own, and tries to convince the player to join in.

I also liked the idea of the 2 bad-end timers in Fallout 1, though apparently it might not have been in the version I played.  But I've always had the unusual opinion that Fallout shouldn't be a series about settling down in safety.

[Shadowlord]

I agree, Star Control 2 did that wonderfully.

[Darkmere]

Yeah, StarCon 2 was fine. I think you could literally spend 2 years mining and nothing else, and still have time to win the game.

Yet, the one time my timer ran out, I was more excited than infuriated, because it made total sense that that would happen.

Fallout 1 though. I never finished it because I was busy exploring and lost, so I just dropped the game. Forever, as it turns out.

[itisnotlogical]

I like timers. Being forced to make a decision in the moment and use your time wisely is a rare challenge. I hate games where the whole world is in danger! except not really, you can let the bad guy stew in his castle until the end of time and nothing will happen. I don't want the world to just patiently wait until I set an event flag, I want to feel like there's things happening beyond what I'm directly responsible for. Nothing makes a game feel more artificial and dumb than "Begin final encounter y/n?" or "Want to wrap up some sidequests before triggering this flag?"

That's what a lot of games that pretend to have a living world boil down to. A whole bunch of game pieces waiting for the player to engage with them. Bethesda NPCs will jump out of bed at three AM to trade with you, that distress call will keep sounding forever in Mass Effect, you can just keep fighting Mutons and Ethereals well into 2020 in XCOM. No urgency (despite what the writers would have you believe), no negative consequences, just leisurely dawdle through the game until you deign to press the "advance main quest" button.

[Darkmere]

Actually I'm gonna add another good timer: Most of the balanced official campaigns with Battle for Wesnoth had sensible timers that gave you a goal and kept you from durdling too much. You definitely wanted the terrain and time of day adventages, but you would usually get enough time for two big assaults per map, tops, before the time's up and you'd better close out the mission.

It also helped forward the plots, really. War's on, don't dilly-dally. Further, it made complete sense that the last Dwarf campaign mission had no timer, because you were slogging through the enemy stronghold and they had no reinforcements. It was just mopping up until you found the... whoever. Big Bads. I forget.

[Chiefwaffles]

Mass Effect 3 had an interesting approach. It wasn't exactly a timer, but doing the main story mission would advance time, changing settings and maps like the citadel and changing side missions if you didn't do them in time. It provided a nice sense of urgency while not strictly punishing the player for choosing different methods to have fun.
Mass Effect Andromeda avoids the "world is in danger! take your time please" problem by quite clearly and explicitly making the situation not something extremely time critical and having the side-quests feel relevant to your objectives. It definitely has its drawbacks, but it's nice not feeling weird that I'm finding lost heating units for people instead of stopping the aliens hell-bent on wiping out all sapient life.

Though no matter what, if a game has side-content that can be locked out by doing the final mission, I expect a "Are you sure you want to do this?" prompt for the final mission. It'd just be idiotic if you unknowingly lock yourself out of content.


And about XCOM: That kind of feels like a bad example? In XCOM1 the panic stuff means that unless you're playing on an easy difficulty setting or are just really good, you have a decent amount of pressure to do well because of the panic system. XCOM2 just foregoes the formalities and has a straight-up timer. Unless you mean UFO Defense, which I doubt.

[itisnotlogical]

Mass Effect 3 had an interesting approach. It wasn't exactly a timer, but doing the main story mission would advance time, changing settings and maps like the citadel and changing side missions if you didn't do them in time. It provided a nice sense of urgency while not strictly punishing the player for choosing different methods to have fun.

That's exactly the thing I'm criticizing though. Planets are under siege and could be lost any minute, but not until you crank the lever and make time move forward. Spend a week doing side missions, and you'll find things exactly how you left them when you return. Are the Reapers and Turians just hanging out, talking about their progress in Dark Souls 492 while waiting for Shepard to show up?

[Neonivek]

I hate games where the whole world is in danger! except not really, you can let the bad guy stew in his castle until the end of time and nothing will happen.

Yes that bugs me intensely!

Oblivion was particularly egregious for me.

[Mech#4]

I remember in Oblivion I was hesistant to close the Oblivion gates because the spheres they held were limited in number and closing them would be lowering the number of areas to explore in the game.

[Neonivek]

I remember in Oblivion I was hesistant to close the Oblivion gates because the spheres they held were limited in number and closing them would be lowering the number of areas to explore in the game.

Gates respawned... Though I remember never doing the main quest because those orbs were nice.

[Neonivek]

I think the fact that my favorite game series is the Pikmin game series says how I feel about timers.

Timers mattered in any of the Pikmin games?