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[11sparky11]

Hm, that would likely help some (turning off hauling), but it isnt something i typically like to do until i have enough immigrants to afford dedicated haulers. Hate to turn that off on one of my 8.

You could always use DT to turn on labour for children and make them the haulers early on after your first wave, although some people are opposed to this, as it is technically cheating.

[Domitian]

I like that idea. Kids should be useful for something!

[11sparky11]

I like that idea. Kids should be useful for something!

Yeah I mean, they are dorf kids. They should be strong enough to haul bins about.

[Keldane]

Hauling the container to the items to pick them up is not 'bugged'. This feature is working as designed (albeit not intelligently so), and the onus is on the player to create a system that makes good use of it. Having a dedicated Herbalist who does not haul seems like a wise decision, just from a speed standpoint; if you want him to get through those plants quickly, you're probably better off if you have someone else ready to carry the items in for him. As an added bonus, because he's focusing solely on harvesting the plants, by the time someone gets out there with a barrel to put them in there will likely be several to load up and haul back. Or, if you'd prefer, you can use the "No Barrels, Take from Anywhere feeding into the Barrels Allowed, Take Only from Links" method which will allow every dwarf to simply haul items back to the stockpile before they're stored more compactly. In a fort of only eight, though, I think you're better off separating dwarves into teams - two for mining/masonry, a carpenter and a woodcutter, a farmer and a brewer, and a herbalist and a food hauler. When the miners aren't digging and there are no masonry projects, temporarily turn on wood hauling so they can help out the carpenter and woodcutter, and when the trees are cut or there are no projects demanding a dedicated carpenter, turn on stone hauling so the miner/masons don't have to fill the stone stockpile themselves. The key, it seems, is not to overburden your dwarves with too many tasks, since they all need some degree of support.

[enizer]

well, i see what you mean, but still, that's an annoyingly complex way to make food and crafts hauling reach just the same level of efficiency as it had before the change...

what annoys me the most though, is that it just dosn't make any sense, WHY would anyone haul a heavy barrel to put one fruit into it, and then haul the barrel back?

even when i use dedicated food haulers they still made one round trip, with a barrel, for each plant, even when the area is full of plants that need hauling

[Keldane]

Personally, I generally don't notice a difference between before and after the hauling changes, except in my ability to create complex resource distribution networks that were previously impossible due to the "one link" limitation on stockpiles.

Concerning the "one fruit, one trip" experience, how many haulers and how many plant barrels did you have active? Don't quote me on this, and I believe that a hauling job is generated immediately when an item needs to be moved. It sits and waits for an available dwarf, who will then *TSK* the item and a number of nearby items that also have pending hauling tasks no one else has claimed. If too many dwarves are available, items are tasked as soon as they're dropped, preventing the dwarf from being able to claim more than one. It might seem backwards (yet, somehow, still logical from a strictly numeric point of view), and it can actually be more efficient to have fewer dedicated haulers.

[enizer]

the example i'm quoting happened early in a fort, i just had 30-something dwarves, no dedicated haulers

i chopped down about 60 trees in the area, and those much heavyer logs got hauled to the fort in little time

i think the limiting factor may have been barrels, there were two designated plant barrels, and they insisted on using those, never new ones, makes sence since that is what space was required, but it also meant there could never be more then two dwarvs hauling plants, which, combined with the huge distance, (my map corner was evil and i was hoping for sliver barb) meant this was a rather extreme case

[Keldane]

Ah, fair enough. In that case, I think you can actually open the orders menu and set it to "Don't Mix Food" to force your dwarves to use separate barrels for each type of plant, and thus get more dwarves hauling (assuming you're getting a variety).

[chevil]

In DF talks toady often talks about reworking the dwarven AI but when will it happen no one can tell.

[UberFuber]

Personally, I generally don't notice a difference between before and after the hauling changes, except in my ability to create complex resource distribution networks that were previously impossible due to the "one link" limitation on stockpiles.

Concerning the "one fruit, one trip" experience, how many haulers and how many plant barrels did you have active? Don't quote me on this, and I believe that a hauling job is generated immediately when an item needs to be moved. It sits and waits for an available dwarf, who will then *TSK* the item and a number of nearby items that also have pending hauling tasks no one else has claimed. If too many dwarves are available, items are tasked as soon as they're dropped, preventing the dwarf from being able to claim more than one. It might seem backwards (yet, somehow, still logical from a strictly numeric point of view), and it can actually be more efficient to have fewer dedicated haulers.

In the mean time, here's a "work-around".

1. Create two stockspiles (let's call them A & B) close to each other.
2. A uses no container, and can take from anywhere. B uses container, and can ONLY take from A (stockpile link from A, and only take from link).
3. Now, all your dwarf will only drag one item at a time to stockpile A, and another dwarf will gather them into a containers in B.
4. You now also have the option to toggle both stockpiles "take from anywhere/take from link only" setting to have dwarf haul with container instead.

A possible quick fix on Toady's side, without too much AI tweaks, may be that IF a stockpile have a wheelbarrow, dwarf will use the wheelbarrow to bring the container out, stick stuff in said container, and bring it back to the stockpile. Currently, the dwarf will haul the container by hand, put the stuff in the bin/barrel, go back to get the wheelbarrow and haul the whole thing back. Which... is pretty moronic.

[Bandreus]

Don't quote me on this (can't remember exactly where/when I've read this), but I think re-working Job Priorities is somewhat high on Toady's to-do list.

Chances are anything buggy with hauling might be tweaked in the process.

[fricy]

In DF talks toady often talks about reworking the dwarven AI but when will it happen no one can tell.

Don't quote me on this (can't remember exactly where/when I've read this), but I think re-working Job Priorities is somewhat high on Toady's to-do list.

Chances are anything buggy with hauling might be tweaked in the process.

06/05/2013  So as I said in the report, the current idea is to figure out just how much fort mode has been affected by the various move/combat/vision/etc. changes and get things back up to speed. It didn't start well, since none of the dwarves could move. I got combat back up in the arena, and then started dropping dwarves into the water, which they no longer knew how to escape -- so I have to convert most things, more or less. Jobs are working now, but I still need to handle the side issues like diplomats, complaints, caravans, and so on. The upside to this revision is that whatever job priority system we come up with is almost touching the ground as far as low-hanging fruit go, so it'll definitely be one of the post-release features we work on with the bug fixes and other upgrades.

06/08/2013  I've handled all of the side issues with dwarven behavior, except for the ones classed in "idle" behavior, which includes parties, fishing, hunting as well as just going to place to hang out. It shouldn't be too hard to finish that tonight.

06/12/2013  I finished those idle issues and also went through all the invasion and wilderness animal and other such code, updating it to the new action system. I'm going to jump through some random stuff now, as we continue to work through the remaining notes. Hopefully some of it will go quickly!

[entelin]

In my previous fort gold was my most common metal (by a LOT). So I made everything out of it,  bins, barrels, walls, floors, furniture, etc. The above ground level of my fort was pure gold. Anyway,  the bins and barrels idea was not so smart as I quickly found out when people were barely moving hauling stuff around XD.

My current fort is a good biome in range of  4 necro towers + goblins and I have been using exclusively feather wood for my bins/barrels.  Hauling is so much faster.

[Dwarf_Fever]

Also, now dwarves can pick up many items in a short time instead of going to the stockpile with one item and coming then to get another one.

Yep, it's quite satisfying to see this happen. Just don't use heavy materials for containers.

It can actually be more efficient to have fewer dedicated haulers.