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Author Topic: (ISG) You are a bound familiar  (Read 47418 times)

Scionox

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #240 on: June 19, 2013, 11:03:03 pm »

I just had an idea. Maybe we could make an illusion that they have lost amulet, they will prolly drop/forget real one while searching and then we could grab it, assuming we will be able to find location of amulet beforehand ofcourse. Either way, we need full mana before we do anything like that and preferably a good way to retreat.
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EveryZig

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #241 on: June 19, 2013, 11:12:13 pm »

Quote
I have though of something we might investigate before just setting fire to the town and hoping for the best though. Food and supplies need to get into the castle somehow, so it might be worthwhile to check whether we can make use of our small size to smuggle ourself into the castle.
Why does everything end with Bay12 trying to burn everything?
Actually I meant 'before' as 'try smuggling with supplies first as an alternative plan to burning everything'. I am not all that fond of plan fire in general.


Someone who works with demons has a choice. Someone who was born a demon didn't.
In some settings, certain types of beings are Always Chaotic Evil.
In many settings, a significant number of people think that certain types of beings are Always Chaotic Evil.
If the adventurers know we are significantly demonic (quite likely) and consider demons to be Always Chaotic Evil (fairly likely considering the harm they seem to be attempting to do to the amulet) they will consider us an enemy by definition.
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RAM

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #242 on: June 19, 2013, 11:50:43 pm »

 Which is why I really want to learn more about demons...
 But really, if our master was fair game, then it is more likely than not that we are fair game by association.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #243 on: June 20, 2013, 12:04:36 am »

Spoiler: Interjections! (click to show/hide)



Yeah, sneaking in with the supplies might be viable. Same with the magical illusion, (though that would likely require an upkeep, and the item's magical properties might make it harder).
But now we're definitely on a clock, and the more we delay the weaker we might become. If we spent an hour preparing, we could have a blaze in 2 hours. The sorceress is spent, the night is dark. Now's the time to strike, else the sorceress will recover, we risk another M-MP hit, or worse.


+1 to demon knowledge
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10ebbor10

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #244 on: June 20, 2013, 12:47:37 am »

Just as a note, the amulet and our distance from it are not nessecairy for our survival. It's just that if we don't get our hands on it in 3 months (or was it weeks), we will come under the current's owners control. At that point, the link will be restablished and we will get our manaflow in order. If we get it ourselves, we can restore our manaflow too.
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RAM

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #245 on: June 20, 2013, 12:51:49 am »

Burning a significant portion of the city, and it would haveto be significant to be effective, would cement us as being Evil, destroy our reputation if it gets found out, still wouldn't get rid of the two guards at the gate, and if they have any sense at all it will be at least half-a-dozen during any sort of crisis, will get lots of people out into the streets(remember that we don't want to be seen at all), and to get any value out of it at all, we would need to take possession of the amulet while people are still panicking. That is not to say that it can't work, but I personally don't think that it would be helpful enough to warrant committing ourselves to Evil. Having said that, we could always have a redemptive moment and find a new purpose, but if we burn down the city than it is almost certain that we will end up with a pact with some nefarious demon on a quest to conquer their home and then conquer our home too...
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escaped lurker

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #246 on: June 20, 2013, 12:55:11 am »

Which is why I really want to learn more about demons...
+1 to demon knowledge

Spoiler:  Objections! (click to show/hide)

Just as a note, the amulet and our distance from it are not nessecairy for our survival.

Nope, if we don't get it in these three months, it's goodbye to the demon-part of our soul. Wich effect that will take is unkown, but most certainly undesireable. (Excpect a roll with a very high death-chance, the other options being quite malicious effects. And an assorted few positive ones for the pure FUN of it. Don't bet on surviving or getting one of the later boons thou.)



Extraplanar Entities

While there undoubtly exist many planes quite similiar to this one - commonly called "The World" by its inhabitants - it is actually no easy matter to gain access to them. Because of the many rules and limitations that are enacted upon these planes, one must bend too many of them as to make a viable summon from them. As it stands, magical theory deems even dragons unable to do so on their own, and the few dozen organized experiments, done every couple of decades by a prominent leader of some magic guild, have all ended as failures. To be correct, it still stands to discussion if Luronow's try - some hundred years ago - managed to summon that weird fly-like being, or if the magic imposed on the area just mutated one into such.

For these reasons, one may only call upon "The Outer Planes", where such concepts as mass, body, time and distance may or may not hold sway - sometimes even depending on the specific area the inhabitants currently dwell. Most beings in these planes with sufficient intelligence and power can choose to guard themself against summons, and that is where the real problem beginns. If one succeeds in breaching the planes and gathering their essence into "The World", one can safely assume that the being summoned is either too dumb to care, or out for their own gain. While their behaviour is as different as the planes they stem from, the underlying greed is often enough a case for problems. With the threat of your own live being taken by your summon, it is no wonder that one of the golden rules of demonologes is "Just bind the damm thing to your will". It is also by far the most practiced rule, with other gems like "Don't show the damm thing to others" or "Never sacrifice others in the ritual - and if you do never admit to it" being the follow-ups, but not as ardently followed.

While normaly a major annoyance at most, the case of the extraplanar entity now know as "Hirzklavar", proves some of these beings capable of unlimited growth. Since the later succeeded "Halarion" as the prefered god of implications and misguided irony, the existing churches bear somewhat of a grudge against demonologes, with the almost mandatory extraplanar amassing an army bent on conquest of "The World" certainly not helping in the matter. While it largely depends on the local laws - or rather, how influental the magic guild is in comparison to the churches and or the lawgivers sanity - the practice of summoning may or may not be outlawed as a consequence.

For that matter, the summoning of energy from these planes is also very questionable if not hazardable to ones own health - even if great precautions are taken, the plane and thus the released energy and effect might have changed since the last summon. The many happenings that occured in these ways, have prompet the "Demonologe goes x" jokes - casually enjoyed by magic apprentices -  whereas x can pertain to any kind of thinkable effect, derived from said energies.



So, evil? Possibly, quite possibly. But mostly upredictable in their greed. Add in the different alignments and you have pure chaos, without the "evil" - or rather "sinful"? - reasoning that it bears in warhammer and other fiction. Nope, do not want discussion, if I'm wrong on that uptake so it be. ;3

@ RAM - good thinking about the mandatory demon-lord bent on world-conquest. Even before I mentioned it. As my dice have told me in response, there is currently one going real strong (Natural 20 - dat guy) - obviously in another part of "The World", but still.
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10ebbor10

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #247 on: June 20, 2013, 01:01:12 am »

Must've misread that.
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RAM

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #248 on: June 20, 2013, 03:12:43 am »

So either we have a scrap of some yokel who never heard of this newfangled summoning business, or they had some motive for letting us take some essence that doesn't seem to have involved monetary compensation. The G.M. probably rolled on it, so lets assume that at some point we will find our consciousness skipping over some time, and we will probably cough up a red-eyed horny fly with scales instead of legs from time to time... And whatever the case, demons probably aren't Evil, but they may well be a bunch of weirdoes and we likely see the worst of them.

I stand by my build/acquire a flying aide.
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Bronimin

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #249 on: June 20, 2013, 12:48:31 pm »

-
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 05:14:09 pm by Bronimin »
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escaped lurker

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #250 on: June 20, 2013, 05:49:25 pm »

First of all, I would beg of you to bold your planned actions in the future.
It get's very confusing to discern among your discussion what you actually want to do. I mostly only can gather what you do not want to do, wich is burning the town. That and maybe - or maybe not - trying to ally with the heroes. The only action you kinda agreed upon was trying the thief and smuggling ourself in with the supplies. Since it's nighttime right now and time might be precious, i choose to tackle the first one, with the latter planed for the day. The results are below ;3 / :S

@RAM - Sorry, but a hot air baloon is too steam-punk-ish for my taste in this setting. The Crossbow is about the highes tech they have here, and even that one is restricted to dwarves for now. Magic is commonly relied upon for the more complicated matters, prompting less inclination towards mechanical stuff.


Spoiler: Indezi (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Abilities (click to show/hide)
Feeling that realistic chances are a precious thing, you decide on giving the middleman another chance, seeing as you yourself have not much use for coin anyways. On the way there you have to avoid some guards by a hairs breadth - it really is a good idea to sleep in and move most of the night like you currently do. When you get to that specific part in town, you see that others deem to think the same - you could only image one other place bustling at these times. There even is a lowly mage there, undoubtly looking into some of the lesser practiced arts. He should notice any casting that you would do in the imediate area, but as he leaves almost as soon as you arrive you do not have to stall for long.

It is exceedingly difficult to wander through this crow thou, as they keep their eyes peeled and their wits about them - some of them seem to notice your mud-clad figure, but do little more than glance at you a few times. You deem the whole situation as most unfavorable, and decide to stay in the shadows, favoring a tactical withdrawal. After getting some distance and waiting for about an hour or so, you realize that they don't seem to disperse, they even seem to get more people.


Day 4

You consider the current situation and options - while it might be a stretch, you could try the incline of the wall, as scouting and hiding in supplies being delivered into the keep is definetly a thing of the day, and might take another to succsessfully set up. For a moment you entertain the thought of flying into the keep with birds lifting you up, but neither is a swarm of bird subtle, nor do you have any way of obtaining that number of birds - else only elemental winds do come to mind, but as this would involve showing yourself to a magician you are quite sure that it would only do as a last-resort kind of thing. Rushing into the keep after distracting the guards at the gate might be viable, but as you have witnessed the guards on the battlement brandishing their bows when a stray dog came near, you think that it might be pushing your luck.

While not much speaks for stealing the amulet, you have quite a lot of doubts about setting the town on fire. Not as much about the populace as being hunted as a consequence, but for the moment you would like to avoid innocent deaths. Somewhat.

With no other valid option, you decide to wait it out - a few minutes after that a contingent of the guards show up at the place, and soon enough most of the rabble has left. With no emotions quelling up, it seems more like a formality being performed than a real crackdown. As soon as the guards are out of view, most of the men just go back, making you wonder just what is wrong with the people in this city. Finally, after another hour of waiting or so they beginn to leave, seemingly having accomplished their goals by standing around, and in a few cases even chatting with each other.

Peering into the hovel that the middleman calls his buisness, you have to wait for his current customers to leave but soon enough he is alone. Intent on giving him the money in exchange for his services, the illusion you cast upon him shrouds your own being into the person you showed him before. You are quite sure he will stab anyone inquiring into the amulet at this point, making any deceit a needless provocation. He rolls his eyes as soon as he sees you, seemingly not all that happy to see the illusion again.
-3 MP


He let's loose a whistle, and before you know what is going on, there are four men blocking the entrance. Even if you had stayed there - as line of sight is needed for your level of illusions - they would have surely got you. With a smug grin on his face the man inquires if you would be willing to dispel the illusion on your own, lest his friends beat it out of you. The later seem somewhat perplexed by your "true" appearance - it seems they expected a humanoid and not a mudball. Either way, time is precious, and you grasp for a decision.


Current Status:
8/8 Health Points
9/15 Mana Points
10/10 Stamina
2/8 Encumbrance
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Nicholas1024

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #251 on: June 20, 2013, 05:57:41 pm »

There's no choice at this point, tell him the truth.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #252 on: June 20, 2013, 06:54:19 pm »

Quote
I have though of something we might investigate before just setting fire to the town and hoping for the best though. Food and supplies need to get into the castle somehow, so it might be worthwhile to check whether we can make use of our small size to smuggle ourself into the castle.
Why does everything end with Bay12 trying to burn everything?
Actually I meant 'before' as 'try smuggling with supplies first as an alternative plan to burning everything'. I am not all that fond of plan fire in general.
I believe we are agreed on this.

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Someone who works with demons has a choice. Someone who was born a demon didn't.
In some settings, certain types of beings are Always Chaotic Evil.
This isn't that setting, or at least it doesn't apply to us.

Quote
In many settings, a significant number of people think that certain types of beings are Always Chaotic Evil.
We'll prove them wrong.

Quote
If the adventurers know we are significantly demonic (quite likely) and consider demons to be Always Chaotic Evil (fairly likely considering the harm they seem to be attempting to do to the amulet) they will consider us an enemy by definition.
Unless...we show them otherwise.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/quote]
Ah.

Simple: No vivisection, and one more step and one more transit we can escape during.
Assuming they do take us to a 'competent' researcher, there is still no guarantee of non-vivisection.
[/quote]
Why not? What competent researcher goes straight for vivisection, especially on an intelligent being who can talk and such?

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Killing adventurers
To be fair, I am suggesting a fair deal of killing, albeit indirectly.
Why?

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Dealing with demons?
Is that inherently evil? Is he dealing, or studying?
...I really hate when GMs leave vital tidbits like that uncertain. Shouldn't the familiar be somewhat familiar with what the Master does?

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Doesn't the amulet's power to save us require us to have it?
Isn't threatening to keep it away if we don't behave pointless if they keep it away regardless?
I think it was more of a 'we have to be really close to it'. It was in our master's possession after all.
Another thing left unclear. On that note, how close is close enough? And how long do we need to be that close? Would sitting on the sorceress's bedroom window for five minutes each night be enough?

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Not their lapdog, their ally. That is the plan with the highest chance of not dying, whether due to amulet withdrawal or angering a bunch of pretty powerful adventurers.
The power'd be too disproportionate to be called an alliance.
France allied with the colonies in the American Revolutionary War. Germany allied with Italy in WWII. In the cold war, both sides made many alliances with much weaker nations.
Your claims are false.

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First off, my point still doesn't require any of that, just an adventurer with a soft spot and two with souls (or that the one is the leader/strong enough to keep the other/s in line). That's all.
Think: Would you allow a potentially powerful potential ally with a sad past onto your team, or would you chuck him out due to his old owner who he didn't have any overt affections for, thereby creating a new enemy who could easily become more powerful? (Moderately experienced or learned* adventurers would be familiar with this possibility.)
*As in "listen to old tales told by bards", not as in "read lots of books".
The way the GM described it at the beginning, our master wasn't really that horrible of a guy. Kind of an asshole, but not evil. Plus these adventurers sure are good at looting, (implying greed), and just listen to that guy's name, "Isilev the Just"; that just trumpets doucheyness.
Or justness...
Anyways, this is another thing left unclear. Was he really halfway decent, or are we seeing him through tinted lenses? Alright, this is one that it's understandable we don't know; we'll have to ask around.
Why did no one think of being a homunculus?

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Sad past? We wallowed in a gold pile, were fed, (honey & raw meat! not cheap), mana'd & possibly doted on by our master, (something of a prideful moment, our creation was likely),  and the only negative was having to sit through his boring & sometimes humiliating lectures.
I was referring to the claim I'd suggested about us being an unwillingly-corrupted creature without a choice in the matter.

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So, if we join them, we'll be deceiving them about our 'sad past' in order to get near the amulet.
Not entirely. It wasn't our choice to be made, and it wasn't our choice to be part-demon. The only fib is in the origin of our soul, and I'd be willing to drop that in the name of compromise.

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Assuming we told them a tale of sadness- we could just stay neutral
The sob story would certainly help, though.

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Assumingthey aren't Isilev the Just isn't a zealot.
Even if he is one of the adventurers (was this ever stated?) and is such a zealot, he's got two friends who hopefully keep him in line. Just like almost every single zealoty hero in fiction.

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This'd be an interesting turn of events if we were playing as the adventurers.
Indeed.

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But playing as the dragon, we won't have a say in where we go or what we do. Pilgrimage to the draconic-ruled beastman civ of the north? Not likely. But hey, the GM might be able to do something creative, so...if it works out I can see it being fun. But that's a nasty if, especially if Mr. Lurker gets bored.
You know how we get a say? Prove to be valuable to the party's efforts.

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And we could steal it back later, like we would have to by your plan anyways.
They already know we need it. We haven't exactly succeeded at a low profile...
We might be able to steal it back now.
I doubt it.

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And we'd still have to tail them, which could lead to all sorts of fun. Oh, and the sorceress lady's experimenting with it.
Both of those are true regardless of our choices.

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They don't know we need it, we have kept a low profile.
That requires ignorance on the adventurer's part of how familiars work, failure to learn anything from the experiments, and pretending the whole High Profile trait (and the ripples we're making with our powers and such, inexplicable and probably connected by some pattern we can't see from our hyperoptic position) doesn't exist.

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Remind me, which plan was that?
And why was it a good idea?
Firing the town.
-snip-
To summarize...allying with the adventurers means they kill/enslave their new pal, and setting fire to the town will work and will, rather than destroying the amulet or covering it in rubble or causing its bearers to flee, put it in our grasp. Oh, yeah, and we want to prove everyone who hates demons right.
I don't buy it.

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I fail to see why this would inevitably lead to us being subservient to the adventurers.
Also, Alfred and Batman. Servant and master, yet friends and allies.
Alfred could quit. And do we want to play the Alfred to the adventuring party's batman?
He never would, and that was only the most obvious example. Besides, if Alfred was a small magical dragon, I'm sure Batman would take him on enough of his atrols and whatnot to make being him interesting.

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Why not?
I suspect it's just a difference of opinion...
[/quote]
I fail to see why any of that is impossible with the adventurers by our side. Firstly, I'd like to mention that adventurers...adventure. Not much adventure to be found if you stay within shouting distance of your own front porch. Secondly, joining the adventurers gives us much better chances in the world, as far as not getting killed/captured/hated on sight goes, than becoming a town-murdering arsonist. Thirdly, it's easier to get close to the amulet--which we both agree is something we must do--if the adventurers like us than if they hate us.
[/spoiler]

Just as a note, the amulet and our distance from it are not nessecairy for our survival. It's just that if we don't get our hands on it in 3 months (or was it weeks), we will come under the current's owners control. At that point, the link will be restablished and we will get our manaflow in order. If we get it ourselves, we can restore our manaflow too.
Well, according to Grizzly, our freedom is pretty important and becoming the "lapdog" of the sorceress is worse than death...and, anyways, she's kinda messing with it.


Anyways. Long-term, we don't agree. Short-term, dispel the illusion and claim to be a small dragon interested in studying this amulet. Medium-term...well, one thing I'm realizing is that there's too many assumptions and unknowns. Before we can make a plan, we need to know some of them. Let's do some recon of the area in general, and the party in specific.
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EveryZig

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #253 on: June 20, 2013, 10:45:53 pm »

A few quick questions for the DM before making my decision:
What is the floor of the house made of (in particular, is it flammable)?
Are there any windows or such to the house?
Is anyone present visibly armed?

I don't think revealing our identity is an option here. These guys are thieves who are already hostile to us, and revealing that our corpse is very valuable just gives them a compelling reason to become a long-term threat. Our options are to bluff our way our or evade them using illusions, any which of those we should go with depends on the situation (see questions above).

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In many settings, a significant number of people think that certain types of beings are Always Chaotic Evil.
We'll prove them wrong.
Lots of people hold quite tightly to their beliefs as to who is or is not always evil. Even to people who are not like that, proving ourself non-evil against their expectations requires a provable record of good (or at least definitely not evil) behavior, which takes time to build up, which requires us to not be killed before then.
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escaped lurker

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Re: (ISG) You are an unbound familiar
« Reply #254 on: June 20, 2013, 11:08:26 pm »

A few quick questions for the DM before making my decision:
What is the floor of the house made of (in particular, is it flammable)?
Are there any windows or such to the house?
Is anyone present visibly armed?

The floor and whole house are wood, but our Fire-Sneeze is just that. A short burst of dragonfire - on bare skin able to cause blisters, and light dry twigs on fire.

There are windows, but they have no real sill and are boarded up - the good man is conducting serious buisness in there, and has taken the appropriate measures.

Some of the men do have knives, but remember that we are cat-sized. A few strong kicks or one well-placed stomp and we are history. They are clothed in linen and leather, so it will also be quite troublesome to outrun them, should we somehow get out of the house.

... proving ourself non-evil against their expectations ...

Unless that middleman is really worth his salt, and does know enought about the magical circles to have heard of our master and us - not that unprobable as we are in the neighbourhood - they will only see a dragon. Well, or something that very well could be one, as I doubt that they are studied in this topic. Like mentioned in the dragon-trivia (wich will wander onto the start-post with the demon one), there is actually little known of dragons, seeing as they really like to keep to themselves for the most part. But it is well known that their ire is dangerous - that is to say, bluffing something up is not that far out there.
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