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Author Topic: Can you drown the Circus?  (Read 1714 times)

InfinityOrNone

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Can you drown the Circus?
« on: June 10, 2013, 12:42:42 am »

Hey, I just had my first visit from the Circus and (after I stopped cursing) I began to wonder: would it be possible to simply flood the Circus? I mean, a nice chunk of the Clowns I saw were made of fire, so could I just ready an aquifer, open up the Cotton Candy, and wall everything off until the Clowns drown?
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chevil

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 12:51:54 am »

Clowns don't breathe. But if you add some magma to the mix then you have your weapon of clown destruction.
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Tiruin

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 01:06:31 am »

Sadly, beings made of fire don't...extinguish when meeting water. Sad for your dwarves, happy for them. Because sentient creatures of living flame are like such.

Clowns don't breathe--that's a fact. Another fact is that they can fly. For those that can't fly, there are those chasms deep beneath the earth that act as endless holes..the world is also too huge to enclose and drown areas solely by water, so no luck there.

In short: Impossible to flood the circus. Impossible to douse fiery clowns. Clowns are, to term it bluntly, immune to the presence to magma or water.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 01:09:28 am by Tiruin »
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TripJack

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 01:08:04 am »

clowns don't mind magma or water
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Girlinhat

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 01:31:25 am »

Hey, I just had my first visit from the Circus and (after I stopped cursing) I began to wonder: would it be possible to simply flood the Circus? I mean, a nice chunk of the Clowns I saw were made of fire, so could I just ready an aquifer, open up the Cotton Candy, and wall everything off until the Clowns drown?
To be specific, there's three essential problems here...
1: Fire is not fire.  They are made of 'fire' but it's really just a solid material that has a very high temperature - if that much.  You'll also see creatures made of water and vomit that behave like perfectly reasonable solid creatures.  If anything, think of it more as Balrog "superheated stone chunks" than actual wisps of flame.

2: Clowns do not breath, specificially [NO_BREAHTE] means they cannot be drowned or strangled.  Well, they can be strangled, just doesn't do anything!

3: The circus has extremely large, open pits to the void.  These are bottomless holes into the unknown through which water simply vanishes.  Attempting to flood the circus would, at best, result in a very spectacular waterfall.  At worst you would flood your own fortress because you forgot how water pressure works.

The pits are actually a very curious thing when you think about it.  The lowest available spot on the map is hell itself, but the pits go down infinitely from there.  And they do go down infinitely.  The world is not round - civilizations on either edge of the map do not take the short route crossing the map's edge.  The world is like a slice of cake, except it goes down infinitely (which would be incredible if cake were infinite).

The demons do not come from the pits.  They come from other parts of the underworld, wandering the depths aimlessly in their prison of semi-molten rock.  In fact the demons can fall into the pits, and be devoured.

The common consensus of lore is that the demons of ages past owned the ball of slade.  The gods covet this 'planet' they own, and cover them in a sky of rock, building their world atop it.  The anger of the demons and the flames of their bodies keep this material semi-molten, made divine and incapable of truly melting, it exists in a limbo state, burned by the pits of hell but hardened by divine protection.  Yet as the world grew, fissures appear, allowing certain demons to escape, taking leadership over human and goblin civilizations in particular, their bloodlines diluting into common night creatures, before the gods seal the cracks with adamantine spires.  The only remaining openings, the underground structures, are sealed by brave heroes using adamantine blades to form a barrier, keeping the structures sealed.  The power of this draws common animals and citizens to keep the sword in place, even after death they remain, zombies existing solely to keep intruders at bay and keep the seal safe - until some dumbfuck dwarf deconstructs it.

All this ultimately begs the question... what exists below the demons?  What are the pits?  What could there be so deep, so buried, so ancients, that the denizens of hell itself refuse to descend any lower?  If the gods built their world by encasing demons in the durable semi-molten rock, then what did the demons encase in their impenetrable slade?  What truly old and powerful force of the universe itself dwells within a prison of slade, an indestructible barrier that, with time, has slowly started to fissure and separate...

We've debated how players become more adapt, dwarven science progressing weaponization to incredible heights that hell itself becomes a mere testing zone for theories.  Toady still has something laying in wait.  That Which Dwells Beneath must surely be something untame and unmanagable.

Fenrisson

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 01:32:29 am »

If you drop the water and/or magma, or accelerate it the clown will take impact damage though
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Fenrisson

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 02:00:15 am »

If you drop the water and/or magma, or accelerate it the clown will take impact damage though

(to quote myself - I hadn't ever done that yet)

How about a pre-pressured water cannon - If one builds a vertical shaft about 100 z-levels deep, with a constant water-inflow, the water pressure on the bottom of such a shaft should be enormous - with the right lever-gate outlet and an appropriate drainage system, one should have a watergun to be reckoned with...

I'm sure someone tried this - right? A watergun without minecarts - If not !!!Science!!!
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Drazinononda

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 07:47:58 am »

The minecart watergun concept works by abusing game behavior: a glob of water launched from a minecart shotgun is treated as a solid object, same as if you launched a rock from the same setup. The physics of that is calculated differently from the physics of a fast-flowing liquid; fast-moving water does not "strike" creatures the way that a fast moving 'glob' of water does.

Now, the cart-less cannon may still knock creatures against walls with enough force to harm them -- a sort of sideways falling damage. I don't have enough experience with flow to comment on that.

The difference would basically be swapping the requirement for minecart infrastructure with the requirement for cistern and drainage infrastructure, since the "blast them into a wall" scheme only works with huge amounts of flow requiring huge drainage systems.
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Children you rescue shouldn't behave like rabid beasts.  I guess your regular companions shouldn't act like rabid beasts either.
I think that's a little more impossible than I'm likely to have time for.

Fenrisson

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 08:36:35 am »

So it is still doable! At least fit for a test - all one needs is a corridor with a huge drain at the end and a collision-wall - the "gun" should be a sort of wave generator, pushing the clowns back, slamming them into the wall, letting them approach again,...

I guess I will test the setup in a small scale on cats and prisoners when I find the time - I am currently busy with my thesis...
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Man of Paper

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 08:43:49 am »

I tend to drown them in dwarven corpses, but it doesn't seem to phase faze them.
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TeleDwarf

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 09:15:08 am »

The common consensus of lore is that the demons of ages past owned the ball of slade.  The gods covet this 'planet' they own, and cover them in a sky of rock, building their world atop it.  The anger of the demons and the flames of their bodies keep this material semi-molten, made divine and incapable of truly melting, it exists in a limbo state, burned by the pits of hell but hardened by divine protection.  Yet as the world grew, fissures appear, allowing certain demons to escape, taking leadership over human and goblin civilizations in particular, their bloodlines diluting into common night creatures, before the gods seal the cracks with adamantine spires.  The only remaining openings, the underground structures, are sealed by brave heroes using adamantine blades to form a barrier, keeping the structures sealed.  The power of this draws common animals and citizens to keep the sword in place, even after death they remain, zombies existing solely to keep intruders at bay and keep the seal safe - until some dumbfuck dwarf deconstructs it.

All this ultimately begs the question... what exists below the demons?  What are the pits?  What could there be so deep, so buried, so ancients, that the denizens of hell itself refuse to descend any lower?  If the gods built their world by encasing demons in the durable semi-molten rock, then what did the demons encase in their impenetrable slade?  What truly old and powerful force of the universe itself dwells within a prison of slade, an indestructible barrier that, with time, has slowly started to fissure and separate...

We've debated how players become more adapt, dwarven science progressing weaponization to incredible heights that hell itself becomes a mere testing zone for theories.  Toady still has something laying in wait.  That Which Dwells Beneath must surely be something untame and unmanagable.

There is a possibility that the world is actually a piece of hollow sphere, the day creatures live on the inner side of the sphere, and since the sphere rotates - we can see day-night cycle(because the sphere is not complete we can perceive sun rotating around the "planet") and feel a kind of gravity - same force that keeps water from spilling out of the revolving bucket.

Bottomless pits are the openings leading to the outer side of the sphere, but since sphere rotates - anyone stupid enough to fall there will be thrown into space by the outward force we all know as gravity.

How does the segment of a hollow sphere rotate in space - is a great question. It might be that mountain peaks we know are not embarkable on are much higher then we imagined. Maybe they connect with other segments? I definitely need a drawing to explain it any better.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 09:35:44 am »

How does the segment of a hollow sphere rotate in space - is a great question. It might be that mountain peaks we know are not embarkable on are much higher then we imagined. Maybe they connect with other segments? I definitely need a drawing to explain it any better.
You can visit those mountains in adventure mode.  They're simply barren and cragged rock.

TeleDwarf

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 09:44:13 am »

You can visit those mountains in adventure mode.  They're simply barren and cragged rock.

Indeed. Forgot about that (actually I never did that as trevelling in mountains in Adventure mode is a painful chore).

An adamantine scaffolding on the outer side of the sphere? to thin, slippery and inconveniently placed to be traveled on, but strong and multiple enough to hold two or more spinning segments together?

Oh, and we also need a greater sealed outer sphere that will not allow air to escape. this outer sphere will either need to be large enough to contain sun or transparent enough to allow sunlight inside. This dwarven world start to look wierd.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 09:47:12 am by TeleDwarf »
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InfinityOrNone

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Re: Can you drown the Circus?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 06:22:14 pm »

A thread about drowning clowns progressed into water cannons and theoretical dwarven cosmology. Dear Armok, I love this place!
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