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Author Topic: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights  (Read 103104 times)

Another

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1050 on: December 18, 2013, 07:14:19 am »

I for one am totally OK with US spying on Russia. Modern counter-espionage is mostly viewed here as a serious game* to score various political points** with high stakes for involved individuals.

By the way - it was never a real secret that some ships under Norwegian flag are in fact USA intelligence. It was just pretending the we don't know that they don't know that we don't know that... and so on. A formal diplomatic note may be issued but no real consequences will follow in this case.

*A game I am not interested to take any part in.
**Which can lead to some economic advantages sometimes.
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Tack

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1051 on: December 18, 2013, 07:54:46 am »

Australia recently got caught spying on Thailand or something.

They're quite unhappy.
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olemars

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1052 on: December 18, 2013, 07:56:14 am »

I'm not sure why this is suddenly news, even in the norwegian press. We have huge radomes and listening posts all along the border and a few "science vessels" constantly prowling around the arctic. It's also known that agents have been crossing the border on foot since the fifties to install various equipment and ferry packages.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1053 on: December 18, 2013, 08:12:51 am »

Australia recently got caught spying on Thailand or something.

They're quite unhappy.
Indonesia. Both expect one another to invade their respective countries though, so this revelation only serves to make that more likely.

Helgoland

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1054 on: December 18, 2013, 08:45:37 am »

Why would Australia invade Indonesia - or the other way round? The island-jumping logistics alone...
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Tack

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1055 on: December 18, 2013, 08:50:02 am »

Yeah we discovered Indonesia was spying on us in 2006 or something.

And it was treated with a kind of 'Well, guess that's diplomacy for ya' blase' attitude.
And now this.
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Zangi

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1056 on: December 18, 2013, 09:24:26 am »

I'm not sure why this is suddenly news, even in the norwegian press. We have huge radomes and listening posts all along the border and a few "science vessels" constantly prowling around the arctic. It's also known that agents have been crossing the border on foot since the fifties to install various equipment and ferry packages.
Probably cause it can be silently ignored.  Humans are pretty good at ignoring things they don't want to see... especially when they have a bunch of their own things to deal with and don't consider it a problem for themselves.
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Evil Knievel

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1057 on: December 19, 2013, 11:12:08 am »

Overview from very close to the source.

Greenwald inquired by EU parliament

- the big masterplan
- the difference between NSA and GHCQ and other "conventional" services
- implicit answers about what can be expected to be published
- implicit answers on "what's there you are not saying"
- styles of countries in the style of their representatives, and an "outstanding" british one

or should have gone to the European thread?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 11:17:44 am by Evil Knievel »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1058 on: December 19, 2013, 11:16:40 am »

Why would Australia invade Indonesia - or the other way round? The island-jumping logistics alone...
That's why they haven't invaded one another. Either one would invade the other one just to stop the other invading them. Australian Army and Indonesian Navy a shit though, so it'll never happen.

Aqizzar

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1059 on: December 20, 2013, 02:30:33 pm »

So, that Presidential commission on changes to NSA policy came out last week, which I'm sure everyone already knew, but there was an interesting interview with one of the members who wanted to make a bigger deal about a little note buried in the report.  Namely: the mass collection of phone data was virtually useless for terrorism investigations, and the NSA knew it.  Echoing almost every level-headed person who heard about the phone program and thought, how the heck is enough transmission data to fill a billion dollar server supposed to help you find anything?

Apparently the study also found that the NSA wasn't logging anywhere near all phone transmissions, just most of those carried by AT&T and Verison but that in itself was a telling sign of just how much faith the NSA had in the program.

Honestly, this combined with the whole "so many spies 'observing' World of Warcraft we had to make sure they weren't spying on each other" business tells me the NSA had gotten very reassured of its complete immunity to oversight or questioning, and was just letting any middle-manager with an idea throw shit at the wall to see what worked.
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misko27

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1060 on: December 20, 2013, 06:31:25 pm »

I have to admit, my primary concern through all of this has not been so much the government spying, but rather regulated, and the lack thereof. The very story of Snowden leaking should speak volumes: "So a random contractor can just make off with tons of government information?" And given the content of some of those files, particularly the actual spying records, a lot of the personnel-based inethical things can go on. The WoW thing was another nail, but there have been many others: The whole Merkel incident, the constant drum beat of news hinting at not only how much info was being taken, but how little was used or even analyzed; taken solely because they can and why not. The NY times ran an article about the culture of office there, specifically the drive to "get everything that could be useful", without consideration of consequence or even actual usefulness: Obama having Ban-Ki Moon's talking points before he actually spoke with him is only barely useful, and that only hints at even more info of an even more useless level collected simply because it is tangently related to politics.

It points basically to an organization uncoordinated, one where useful info can fall down the cracks as a deluge of privacy invading yet useless info streams in. They're just doing whatever in there, playing spy with their toys. They need to go in there, and reform from the bottom up. I know many of us would prefer to simply rage at the NSA and demand that they stop doing things; but it won't happen, and it makes the agency defensive and brings out defenders. No one benefits from the NSA being run poorly, and that is what is happening.
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Leafsnail

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1061 on: December 20, 2013, 07:17:58 pm »

I agree.  A random contractor was able to make a copy of all this information without anyone noticing.  Realistically any nation with a remotely decent spy network must have had access to all of this stuff already.  If these documents are actually important to national security then the real scandal is that they were left in such an insecure location.

So, that Presidential commission on changes to NSA policy came out last week, which I'm sure everyone already knew, but there was an interesting interview with one of the members who wanted to make a bigger deal about a little note buried in the report.  Namely: the mass collection of phone data was virtually useless for terrorism investigations, and the NSA knew it.  Echoing almost every level-headed person who heard about the phone program and thought, how the heck is enough transmission data to fill a billion dollar server supposed to help you find anything?
Quote
Despite the panel’s conclusions, Stone strongly  rejected the idea they justified Snowden’s actions in leaking the NSA documents about the phone collection. “Suppose someone decides we need gun control and they go out and kill 15  kids and  then a state enacts gun control?” Stone said, using an analogy he acknowledged was “somewhat inflammatory.” What Snowden did, Stone said, was put the country “at risk.”
Hmm yes that seems like a pretty fair analogy.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 07:20:18 pm by Leafsnail »
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SalmonGod

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Re: NSA Leaks - They've accomplished something! A court ruling against the NSA!
« Reply #1062 on: December 20, 2013, 09:02:39 pm »

Quote
Despite the panel’s conclusions, Stone strongly  rejected the idea they justified Snowden’s actions in leaking the NSA documents about the phone collection. “Suppose someone decides we need gun control and they go out and kill 15  kids and  then a state enacts gun control?” Stone said, using an analogy he acknowledged was “somewhat inflammatory.” What Snowden did, Stone said, was put the country “at risk.”
Hmm yes that seems like a pretty fair analogy.

WTF is this analogy
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