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[SalmonGod]

Ruining people's lives should be unquestionable.

The execution thing is fuzzier.  I don't mean that they simply abduct people and kill them and that's it.  Instead, law enforcement are given huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amounts of leeway in the use of deadly force, and interactions with people that they don't like are intentionally set up to be messy.  Any sort of recognized dissident can expect incredibly over the top and dangerous interactions with authorities, such as no-knock raids with assault weapons in the middle of the night to investigate minor offenses, that are well-understood to increase the likelihood of the suspect getting killed.  Yeah, it's not exactly execution, but it's something pretty damn similar.

And that's on U.S. soil.  Anything goes against an activist opposing U.S. corporate interests in South America or something.

[Scoops Novel]

Peter Sunde of TPB fame is developing a privacy-oriented messenger app thingie. Might be worth keeping an eye on.

Someone also recommended bitmessenger to me recently.

I was wondering how programmers have been reacting to the news. If anyone's cares to add to/answer that, you're welcome.

Mictlantecuhtli, you said we should stop, then shall we all stop? I've already given you reasons identical to yours, don't spit on them.

[Scoops Novel]

As i was saying. Apparently feds are being being asked to sit out defcon, the hacking conference where they often draw recruits. They're reasoning is that tensions have "been brought to the fore", with the idea that Obama bringing improvements having quashed. http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/07/for-first-time-ever-feds-asked-to-sit-out-defcon-hacker-conference/
Bearing in mind that "incognito" federal agents often attend and PRISM revelations are doubtfully surprising to hackers worth their salt, i did not know they were in need of a PR move.

[Zangi]

Seems to be more on principal.  It is likely that the pool of hackers defcon provides to the gov't may be recruited specifically for NSA surveillance and hacking similar to stuxnet.  That may leave a bitter taste.  Especially if it comes to be seen as mainly a place for the gov't to recruit talented hackers.

Some may also dislike the idea of the US having hacking teams/units, similar to what is accused of China...  but that was probably not as loud before now.

[Scoops Novel]

Seems to be more on principal.  It is likely that the pool of hackers defcon provides to the gov't may be recruited specifically for NSA surveillance and hacking similar to stuxnet.  That may leave a bitter taste.  Especially if it comes to be seen as mainly a place for the gov't to recruit talented hackers.

Some may also dislike the idea of the US having hacking teams/units, similar to what is accused of China...  but that was probably not as loud before now.

It's not as if the requirements of the job, or the likelihood of such programs, has changed significantly since the last conference. You would have thought the hacking community knew what they were getting into, including the unaffiliated hackers, though i suppose there's wriggle room on that last note.

[Scoops Novel]

The guardians put up details on Microsoft working with the NSA to get around it's encryption. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data. More of the same (if detailed), effectively acting as a reminder.

[GlyphGryph]

Was just about to post that myself.

Basically, if you use Microsoft services, they don't just have access to your metadata, and your encryption security... aint.

Skype and Hotmail and Outlook all have nice little backdoors built in to insure your "encrypted" data is easily viewable and safely recorded.

[palsch]

I haven't used any online Microsoft services since I switched away from Hotmail during the Gmail beta, but was the encryption actually ever billed as a privacy feature?

I know Gmail only offers https access, not encryption of emails or anything similar. Unless Microsoft actually claimed to store data encrypted on their servers I'm surprised this is even a question. I'd have expected that Microsoft store all information in the clear (EDIT: or close enough - any encryption would just be Microsoft's own data protection measures and easily decrypted at their end without user permission) and just encrypt it for transmission, like every other secure website out there. That goes for webchats as well, unless they were supposed to be P2P or particularly secure.

Note that such a thing is a possible - Lastpass do it for password databases, with the data only being unencrypted once you download it - but very rare service.

[Strife26]

Was just about to post that myself.

Basically, if you use Microsoft services, they don't just have access to your metadata, and your encryption security... aint.

Skype and Hotmail and Outlook all have nice little backdoors built in to insure your "encrypted" data is easily viewable and safely recorded.

I'd just like make an aside and complain about this point in particular.
How is it that *my* Skype logs aren't easily viewable and safely recorded, just the government's set?

Friggin messenger getting shut down and stuff.

[Bauglir]

Bizarrely, Messenger seems to be functional if you're logging into the account with a different client. Pidgin has yet to fail me. There is, of course, absolutely no possibility that they aren't being recorded just as thoroughly as anything else. But, hey, at least it turns out I wasn't being paranoid whenever I added notes to law enforcement to clarify that implied illegal activities were fictional, usually referenced as part of a joke - obviously that alleviates no suspicion, but at least the intended audience might one day encounter them.

[Strife26]

Yeah, I actually do almost all of my messenger work through my phone just to get around it.

Errrr, we're getting sidetracked, aren't we?

Errr... but you do have to admit that the government uses its power to ruin careers and drive people to suicide. No, I don't think they are as bad as the Stasi or even China but it seems very much a difference of degree at this point, not kind. And they do seem to be narrowing that degree every year - summary assassination of US citizens.would have been fairly unthinkable a decade ago and now its part of standard policy. I don't think the government is near as bad as the stasi but I'm worried there are plenty of people in it that would like to see that change.

Introducing an active member of Al Quida to a hellfire missile is a fairly acceptable thing to do, I'd say, as violence against America of that sort should imply a revocation of citizenship.

[Loud Whispers]

Seems to be more on principal.  It is likely that the pool of hackers defcon provides to the gov't may be recruited specifically for NSA surveillance and hacking similar to stuxnet.  That may leave a bitter taste.  Especially if it comes to be seen as mainly a place for the gov't to recruit talented hackers.

Some may also dislike the idea of the US having hacking teams/units, similar to what is accused of China...  but that was probably not as loud before now.

Stuxnet: Costliest malware effort in all of history.
Type writers: 10k.

[XXSockXX]

All I'm saying is throwing on the Stasi label not only shows a level of ignorance of their methods but a willingness to divulge fact from comparisons. It gives no context and hinders understanding the methods and processes the US surveillance system goes through and arguably downplays the things the Stasi did. Which, being Jewish, I do not appreciate, as they were basically a Lite-SS. :/

Compare and contrast all you wish, but do not correlate the two. It's probably the only time I'll make a sincere request to the board to respect that. As it's pretty insulting to hear the US systems being made out to be worse than the Stasi, who executed dissidents and drove people to suicide by ruining their lives and careers. My father being one of them targeted.


Thanks for the invite back to Germany Post-WW2, pricks.

Talking about unfitting comparisons - why would you compare the Stasi to the SS? If you want to make a Nazi comparison, why not compare it to the Gestapo, which would be spot-on correct.

The Stasi is of course the go-to comparison in Germany for criticizing surveillance. However I haven't heard or read anybody saying that the US/UK surveillance programs are worse in a moral sense than the Stasi. The "worse" part refers to the extent and the abuse potential that total surveillance of electronic communication has. The Stasi never had the ability to know as much about everyone as these internet surveillance programs give to the US and the UK (and probably our own government though they deny it.)
Many people, including chancellor Merkel, agree that the comparisons are trivialising the crimes of the SED-regime and are therefore not appropriate. There is a lot of anger though, about the fact that foreign governments, on which we have no influence whatsoever, spy on us that massively. And since Germany is only a third class ally, we don't even get explanations by the US government, because they simply don't care.

[da_nang]

Snowden to hold a meeting at Moscow Airport in 20 minutes.


Also:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[palsch]

Another Lawfare post, this time about an interesting MIT project that visualises the networks revealed by your gmail metadata.

I tried the program (it lets you delete the metadata after and revoke permission to access it) and it was pretty interesting. It missed a lot of networks where I primarily used other email addresses, especially back when I was at university. But it did clearly outline the various shared houses I've lived in and even the fringes of one political group I was involved in (despite most of that business being conducted on another email account, since defunct).