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Author Topic: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights  (Read 103297 times)

GlyphGryph

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Well, I actually would be more comfortable with my government spying on me than with the US doing the job. For one thing, I don't trust my government with being a competent panopticon, and then I can actually try to influence them and they actually have to pretend they care about my privacy, whereas the US government seems to consider that if's you're not a US citizens, your rights barely are worth the Hellfire missile they'll use to end them.

Hey now, they've recently decided it's alright to hellfire US citizens and they've long thought they don't need to bother knowing what's going on, so you're not THAT much worse off...

Anyways, Obama STILL doesn't get this...
Here, let me quote John Oliver for you.
Quote from: John Oliver
I think you're misunderstanding the perceived problem here, Mr. President.  No one is saying you broke any laws.  We're just saying it's a little bit weird that you didn't have to.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 07:01:27 am by GlyphGryph »
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XXSockXX

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #196 on: June 19, 2013, 07:13:18 am »

Hey now, they've recently decided it's alright to hellfire US citizens and they've long thought they don't need to bother knowing what's going on, so you're not THAT much worse off...

Anyways, Obama STILL doesn't get this...
Here, let me quote John Oliver for you.
Quote from: John Oliver
I think you're misunderstanding the perceived problem here, Mr. President.  No one is saying you broke any laws.  We're just saying it's a little bit weird that you didn't have to.
It is a bit worse. I prefer to be spyed on and potentially killed by people I could have elected too.

And as much as I like John Oliver, PRISM might very well break laws outside of the US. It is not clear at this point to what extent, but this can't be compatible with german privacy laws. And yeah, a US court order should not mean much here. Not that we're really expecting the US government to respect our laws (as with the drone controversy), but US corporations have to if they are operating here. They can't do with userdata what they want.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #198 on: June 19, 2013, 12:30:43 pm »

And as much as I like John Oliver, PRISM might very well break laws outside of the US.

I think the problem is that even if it DOES turn out, somehow, to be legal, through some technicality, it really really shouldn't be.
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XXSockXX

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #199 on: June 19, 2013, 01:20:05 pm »

And as much as I like John Oliver, PRISM might very well break laws outside of the US.

I think the problem is that even if it DOES turn out, somehow, to be legal, through some technicality, it really really shouldn't be.
Of course. Shouldn't be legal in the US or any democracy. Though from what Obama said in Berlin today, the difference between democracies and other regimes is that we can at least complain about being spied on. At least that's what I heard.
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SalmonGod

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #200 on: June 19, 2013, 08:56:37 pm »

And as much as I like John Oliver, PRISM might very well break laws outside of the US.

I think the problem is that even if it DOES turn out, somehow, to be legal, through some technicality, it really really shouldn't be.
Of course. Shouldn't be legal in the US or any democracy. Though from what Obama said in Berlin today, the difference between democracies and other regimes is that we can at least complain about being spied on. At least that's what I heard.

Oh, sure... so long as your complaints never amount to a genuine challenge or interference, and you're not the person responsible for initiating the complaints.  You can whine all you want, just don't do anything meaningful.  Every time he says stuff like this, I feel severely condescended.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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Tarqiup Inua

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #201 on: June 20, 2013, 03:27:56 pm »

So they can't, but they can. (recent news regarding the need of court order)

Isn't most information passing through internet encrypted? Be it strongly or not... amazing, so they can intercept that...

...and if you work on university and study anything relevant to security, they can intercept your internet communication too... industrial espionage, anyone? Yay! (not like they aren't supposedly miles ahead of private sector, but it's still mean)
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palsch

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #202 on: June 20, 2013, 04:49:05 pm »

Isn't most information passing through internet encrypted? Be it strongly or not... amazing, so they can intercept that...
Encryption online is fairly rare. Unless you are on a site that uses https then you are transmitting in the clear. With the obvious exception of brief point-to-point encryption, like wifi WPA2, which just prevents interception at certain points while leaving others - such as the switches commonly used for law enforcement intercepts- open. A few non-web services do use encryption, but not many and they tend to be the more paranoid services.

The EFF have been calling for more people to generally encrypt everything and use plugins like https everywhere - which is well worth installing by the way - but as a rule people just don't bother. Which is a problem for everyone. When encryption is rare only those with something to hide bother, and so you can find those who are hiding something by looking for those who use encryption. If you encrypt everything by habit then it's less obvious when you actually start doing something that needs that extra level of security.

As a rule, treat anything you do online as screaming in the middle of a high street in front of traffic and news cameras. If you want anything to be private then you have to take steps.


As for the new leaks I've only skimmed the document so far but after the initial leaks I'm not exactly trusting of the Guardian's reading of them. So far they look pretty much like the set of legal requirements for identification of targets and minimisation of invalid data you would expect. The provisions they highlight are a lot more narrow than they make out or make sense from a technical point of view.

For example, the Guardian lists encrypted data among those types that the NSA can keep even if it has identifying information. This is for decryption purposes. If I'm doing any sort of decryption then I want as much data as I can get. Even if I get the cypher text to the point where I can tell some of it is data about citizens (or there is metadata indicating such) I will want to keep it to help break the encryption method. But far more likely is just not being able to tell if it holds identifying information until I've broken the encryption, at which point minimisation requirements will kick in.
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misko27

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #203 on: June 20, 2013, 06:15:34 pm »

Isn't most information passing through internet encrypted? Be it strongly or not... amazing, so they can intercept that...
As a rule, treat anything you do online as screaming in the middle of a high street in front of traffic and news cameras. If you want anything to be private then you have to take steps.
I think a better analogy is Government records, regular bureaucratic stuff. It exists, you just have to bother to care and look. Otherwise. given the sheer pile of it, it may well as not.
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Sir Finkus

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #204 on: June 20, 2013, 09:53:57 pm »

I have trouble with the "don't worry we're only spying on foreigners" bit because I was under the impression that the bill of rights were supposed to enumerate "natural" rights that every person had, regardless of where they were born or where they live. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/

A fantastic interview with other NSA whistleblowers about the Snowden leak.  They seem to think him being "picked up" is a distinct possibility. 

SalmonGod

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #205 on: June 20, 2013, 11:25:32 pm »

A new corporate surveillance scheme is now up for debate.

Cable companies want to put cameras/microphones in their boxes so they can watch people in their homes, under the pretense of tailoring advertisements.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MaximumZero

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #206 on: June 20, 2013, 11:53:49 pm »

A new corporate surveillance scheme is now up for debate.

Cable companies want to put cameras/microphones in their boxes so they can watch people in their homes, under the pretense of tailoring advertisements.
If this happens, I will tear them out, after sending an amended contract to the provider that allows me to do so or forces them to immediately terminate said contract.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #207 on: June 20, 2013, 11:56:43 pm »

Guess its a good thing I already don't watch TV.
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da_nang

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #208 on: June 21, 2013, 02:36:34 am »

A new corporate surveillance scheme is now up for debate.
How- I don't even-

WHYYYYY?!?!?! Why is this idiocy allowed to continue? Where's the uproar? Where's the rebellion? Come on, Americans, take back your damn rights and throw these idiots out of their seats of power for incompetence and corruption already.
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Sir Finkus

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Re: NSA, PRISM, and NUCLEON - The Snowden Saga: Will there be more?
« Reply #209 on: June 21, 2013, 04:04:48 am »

A new corporate surveillance scheme is now up for debate.
How- I don't even-

WHYYYYY?!?!?! Why is this idiocy allowed to continue? Where's the uproar? Where's the rebellion? Come on, Americans, take back your damn rights and throw these idiots out of their seats of power for incompetence and corruption already.
To be fair this really hasn't actually happened yet.  I suspect when this technology is actually used people won't accept it. 
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