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Author Topic: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights  (Read 105262 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #165 on: June 16, 2013, 05:03:28 pm »

And things get worse!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/

The NSA has admitted to doing all of those things they said they DEFINITELY weren't doing, you know, last week. Snowden's claim about being able to listen in on any conversation whenever he wanted with no judicial oversight is actually very likely to be true. >_>
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SalmonGod

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #166 on: June 16, 2013, 05:47:24 pm »

So any credibility they may have ever had with anyone has just been destroyed.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #167 on: June 16, 2013, 06:01:06 pm »

Other reports are saying to take THAT bit of reporting with a hefty grain of salt. So you should probably do that.
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GlyphGryph

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But wait! There's more!
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/16/world/europe/nsa-leaks/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"Analysts received round-the-clock summaries of calls that were being made, and GCHQ set up Internet cafes for delegates in hopes of intercepting e-mails and capturing keystrokes, the Guardian reported."

The Guardian is timing these releases well - now that they've gotten some popular opposition to this stuff, they're turning other world leaders against the US/British programs as well.
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palsch

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It sounds a bit like Nadler confused matters.

The second link I posted above has the procedure for accessing the content of a call involving a citizen/resident;
Quote
In the third instance, the U.S. person can become a target. Here's what happens: Generally, the NSA analyst will contact a superior, who will write a report attesting to the fact that a known nuclear proliferator called a telephone number inside the U.S. This report, called an IIR, will be forwarded to the FBI's electronic communication liaison unit with NSA, and will be flagged by both the FBI and the CIA. At this point, depending upon the situation, the FBI will run with the tip, or will coordinate with the CIA, or the NSA and FBI will use the IIR to seek a FISA order to monitor the person's communications.

But the standard the court looks for is higher: Probable cause must exist to show that the U.S. person belongs to a network of proliferation. If that standard is not met, the FBI will open an investigation and determine whether indeed the person meets the standard. If he or she does, then an order will be applied for; if not, the person will be ignored — to a point. The investigative records aren't thrown away. The stored communications — remember, the NSA already captured the call — will exist in an electronic database somewhere. If ANOTHER person associated with nuclear proliferation calls the same number, the signals intelligence analyst will be able to see this immediately; remember, the NSA databases operate iteratively.
Now, to my knowledge, this is actually a bit more restrictive than the standard FISA order procedure. That's closer to what is listed for emails;
Quote
If the "score" associated with the email indicates that there is a 51 percent chance or higher that it belongs to a person overseas, the analyst can start monitoring content right away and not do anything further. If that score is less than 51 percent, the analyst can, if directed by a superior, start to access the content, if it's available, but the large team of lawyers the NSA has will be instantly notified, and a FISA order will be sought.
That is, once someone is targeted the information can immediately be accessed but must then be cleared with the court. Such orders in the case of wiretaps can be retroactive up to 72 hours. That is, you have three days from starting the tap to have it cleared. Otherwise it was an illegal search under the fourth amendment and the evidence must be destroyed.

It could be that the procedure is the minimal version, where analysis are accessing information without warrants but getting cleared retroactively, or that the analysis can immediately access the content in the stricter standard, just knowing that the access and information may be revoked if they don't proceed with the FISC warrant.
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GlyphGryph

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That is, once someone is targeted the information can immediately be accessed but must then be cleared with the court. Such orders in the case of wiretaps can be retroactive up to 72 hours. That is, you have three days from starting the tap to have it cleared. Otherwise it was an illegal search under the fourth amendment and the evidence must be destroyed.
This only applies under exigent circumstances, though, right? Otherwise I was under the impression such a search was actually outright illegal, and that there were laws against participating in it on the individual level.

Of course, the NSA probably has an court willing to rubberstamp everything they do as exigent, and it's not likely someone working for the government is actually going to be prosecuted for following (or giving) illegal orders.
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palsch

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Nah, FISC orders can always be retroactive for 72 hours as far as I'm aware. The idea is they can only be used for national security purposes and so distinguishing which circumstances are important enough for retroactive warrants is just another delay, defeating the point. I believe anyone conducting such a search would be protected either by shield laws or simply by the fact that such an illegal search would vanish into the memory hole and could literally never be exposed to be sued over.

It might be slightly different when dealing with US persons or accessing already collected data, which is where the confusion comes in above.

It's one reason the Bush warrantless wiretap program was such a big deal. The only purpose it could possibly serve is wiretaps outside the area of national security that couldn't even be retroactively justified to the court.
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GlyphGryph

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Snowden is answering questions RIGHT NOW at the Guardian. Guess he hasn't been disappeared yet at least.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower
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Mrhappyface

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I'm frankly worried about this. Not so much PRISM, as the US intelligence always had ways to spy on you if they really wanted. The thing is, they're cutting corners when it comes to national security. Outsourcing to lower bidding contractors and handing out top-secret security clearance like candy isn't a good idea imho. It could actually be someone dangerous rather than a code monkey next time.
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nenjin

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I'm frankly worried about this. Not so much PRISM, as the US intelligence always had ways to spy on you if they really wanted. The thing is, they're cutting corners when it comes to national security. Outsourcing to lower bidding contractors and handing out top-secret security clearance like candy isn't a good idea imho. It could actually be someone dangerous rather than a code monkey next time.

What's worse is, the potential for leaks are even higher when this many non-government officials are involved in intelligence gathering. Forget the noble leaks with the aim of informing the public. If just one of those people gets compromised or acts as a double agent, the whole apparatus is compromised.
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Scoops Novel

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A question and answer on Google, etc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What could the government have done? There appears to be mixed feelings from observers on the attitude of the online companies towards this.
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10ebbor10

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The US has plenty of ways to put corporations under pressure.
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SalmonGod

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I'm pretty sure Google doesn't like it, and has posted major infodumps before about how often they're told to give up information about people and how much pressure they're put under to do so.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Scoops Novel

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What gives you confidence? I'm fairly certain Google is implicated with the usual tax evasion and datamining for financial gain.
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SalmonGod

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Don't know about the tax evasion, but datamining for financial gain is basically their whole business model.  They use that data to develop targeted advertising that they sell to other businesses, and all of the services that they provide for free double as advertising platforms.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.
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