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[SalmonGod]

Considering how much they actively target and act against nonviolent activist groups, I wouldn't be surprised if they were already using it against them. I'd be more surprised if anyone actually cared when it comes out, again, that they are. :/

It already has come out.  The thing is it's only come out in alternative media.  The only people who care are those who have been targeted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1613914n
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznaD8yzVjM
lolx2

Based Biden.
Why do people vote in a system where they vote for the person they hate the least?

What I've been saying for forever.  When you vote for the lesser evil, all you're doing is granting legitimacy to evil.

[misko27]

Considering how much they actively target and act against nonviolent activist groups, I wouldn't be surprised if they were already using it against them. I'd be more surprised if anyone actually cared when it comes out, again, that they are. :/

It already has come out.  The thing is it's only come out in alternative media.  The only people who care are those who have been targeted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1613914n
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznaD8yzVjM
lolx2

Based Biden.
Why do people vote in a system where they vote for the person they hate the least?

What I've been saying for forever.  When you vote for the lesser evil, all you're doing is granting legitimacy to evil.

Then close your eyes to the world, because it's all evil.


Anyway, as for Snowden, he seem to be in a pickle. Even Iceland has a new, conservative Prime Minister, who wants very much to strengthen US ties. And as for Russia, hehe, I doubt he'll even choose to go there. He chose Hong Kong because it "defends free Speech", which is not something Russia is so big on. As always, the best option is a poor country like Assange, but he seems to "principle-driven" to choose a country that is sympathetic to him.

It seems like only a matter of time.

[SalmonGod]

Then close your eyes to the world, because it's all evil.

Your comment makes zero sense to me.  I don't share your disdain for our species.  Even if I did, danger is all the more reason to keep my eyes open.

[misko27]

Then close your eyes to the world, because it's all evil.

Your comment makes zero sense to me.  I don't share your disdain for our species.  Even if I did, danger is all the more reason to keep my eyes open.

Okay, then where is your democracy now? But let me guess, they don't understand the situation and information right (not saying they do of course, people are dumb)?

[Sir Finkus]

Then close your eyes to the world, because it's all evil.

Your comment makes zero sense to me.  I don't share your disdain for our species.  Even if I did, danger is all the more reason to keep my eyes open.

Okay, then where is your democracy now? But let me guess, they don't understand the situation and information right (not saying they do of course, people are dumb)?

Dumb/Ill informed != Evil

[SalmonGod]

It says the majority disapprove.  Pretty consistent with the most common line on both sides of the political spectrum -- voting for the lesser of two evils.  "I don't like that Obama lied about his stances on a whole bunch of issues and expanded surveillance/secrecy/political persecution/corporate agendas/etc, but a republican would do the exact same, while at least Obama's on my side of the culture war."

[misko27]

Well, I never said all humans are evil, I said the world is evil. The actions of the bad ones are magnified 10 fold.

Most humans aren't anything. They're neutral, selfish, greedy, hit periodically by urges to do good or bad. They enable the good and bad to duke it out. The Silent Majority is run by everything, yet enables everything by it's existence. No one cares enough. It's is a once a, I can't even say how often it happens, that something is accepted by the majority. Last time it happened IMO was the Second world war. Outside of the Neo-nazi's opinion, it is universal that Nazis are bad. What Fascism is, what it stands for, that was not destroyed. It's almost like the word was added to the dictionaries as a synonym for Scum.

It says the majority disapprove.  Pretty consistent with the most common line on both sides of the political spectrum -- voting for the lesser of two evils.  "I don't like that Obama lied about his stances on a whole bunch of issues and expanded surveillance/secrecy/political persecution/corporate agendas/etc, but a republican would do the exact same, while at least Obama's on my side of the culture war."

First, notice that that is what I was saying about people not really caring one way or another. However, there is this gem..

However, three-quarters said they approved of the government’s tracking phone records of Americans suspected of terrorist activity. Nearly the same number approved of the United States’ monitoring the Internet activities of people living in foreign countries.

On this point, they seem to be in agreement. An unpleasant, but real agreement.

Similar with Drone Strikes. More of the Public approves of Drones then Obama.

[Bauglir]

It says the majority disapprove.  Pretty consistent with the most common line on both sides of the political spectrum -- voting for the lesser of two evils.  "I don't like that Obama lied about his stances on a whole bunch of issues and expanded surveillance/secrecy/political persecution/corporate agendas/etc, but a republican would do the exact same, while at least Obama's on my side of the culture war."

This is exactly why I considered voting for Obama. I didn't, but only because I concluded that his victory was sufficiently certain that I could afford to waste my vote on symbolism. Had the race actually been in doubt, I'm reasonably confident that I probably would've conceded and voted for Obama to avoid the worst case scenario. It's an incredibly frustrating position to be in.

[Vector]

Why do people vote in a system where they vote for the person they hate the least?

Because I was just that scared of Romney.

[RedKing]

Why is it okay for you to look at it on your own iPhone, but not on government hardware?

Because rules.

- Unauthorized disclosures of classified documents (whether in print, on a blog, or on a website) do not alter the documents' classified status or automatically result in declassification of the documents.

- Classified information, whether or not already posted on public websites or disclosed to the media, remains classified, and must be treated as such by federal employees and contractors, until it is declassified by an appropriate U.S. Government authority (Executive Order 13526, Section 1.1.(c)).

It's not so much that it's okay on a personal computer as much as it is "we can't prove you were looking at it". With government gear on a government network, there will be logs. They know people are going to read the news on their own time, they just want to avoid a headline in the NY Times or Washington Post about "Thousands of Government Workers Improperly Viewed Classified Data at Taxpayer Expense" or the like.

[Scoops Novel]

It says the majority disapprove.  Pretty consistent with the most common line on both sides of the political spectrum -- voting for the lesser of two evils.  "I don't like that Obama lied about his stances on a whole bunch of issues and expanded surveillance/secrecy/political persecution/corporate agendas/etc, but a republican would do the exact same, while at least Obama's on my side of the culture war."

I'm far from entirely trusting of that poll. Remind me, what are the prominent paper's in the states? Which ones are generally agreed to be reliable?

Also, reading how the filmer of the interview was contacted, and apparently Greenwald, encryption keys where mentioned. Apparently the filmer had previous experience with them. I understand Snowden had obvious advantages, but can anyone tell me more about how this works, and affective this would be given what we know?

[alway]

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-06/obama-said-all-congress-was-briefed-prism-nonsense
So basically there was barely any attempt at congressional oversight.

[RedKing]

It says the majority disapprove.  Pretty consistent with the most common line on both sides of the political spectrum -- voting for the lesser of two evils.  "I don't like that Obama lied about his stances on a whole bunch of issues and expanded surveillance/secrecy/political persecution/corporate agendas/etc, but a republican would do the exact same, while at least Obama's on my side of the culture war."

I'm far from entirely trusting of that poll. Remind me, what are the prominent paper's in the states? Which ones are generally agreed to be reliable?

Also, reading how the filmer of the interview was contacted, and apparently Greenwald, encryption keys where mentioned. Apparently the filmer had previous experience with them. I understand Snowden had obvious advantages, but can anyone tell me more about how this works, and affective this would be given what we know?

NY Times is generally one of the bellweathers of reliable journalism in the US. Mostly.

Noted sorcerer Nate Silver has some good shit on the public opinion polling and its potential electoral impact.

One of the things that he notes is that people's views on surveillance are malleable depending on their alignment with the executive branch. In other words, Dems are more likely than Repubs *right now* to be in favor of government surveillance, while seven years ago it was just the opposite. Or in other words, partisanship trumps...well, most everything. It's been that way for at least the last twenty years or so.

[Scoops Novel]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/edward-snowden-us-extradition-fight

Snowden intends to fight the legal battle in the Hong Kong Courts, and has released information on the US hacking Hong Kong and China since 2009. He accuses the US of "bulling" the local territory because they do not wish it to learn of it's cyber activities. A protest in support of him is being planned for Saturday I dont think He's announced his location, and apparently the Police will have trouble arresting him.

[Sir Finkus]

I guess his choice of Hong Kong makes more sense now.  Trouble is that he's going to be labeled as a Chinese spy now.