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Author Topic: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights  (Read 105325 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #90 on: June 11, 2013, 12:22:17 pm »

Welp, a lot of character attacks on Snowden for, and I kid you not, being responsible for:
"the rising tide of distrust, the corrosive spread of cynicism, the fraying of the social fabric"
And here is an abbreviated list of things he supposedly betrayed:
"He betrayed honesty and integrity, the foundation of all cooperative activity."
"He betrayed the cause of open government."
"He betrayed the privacy of us all. If federal security agencies can’t do vast data sweeps, they will inevitably revert to the older, more intrusive eavesdropping methods."
"He betrayed the Constitution. The founders did not create the United States so that some solitary 29-year-old could make unilateral decisions about what should be exposed. Snowden self-indulgently short-circuited the democratic structures of accountability, putting his own preferences above everything else."

Yes, you see, Snowden has committed the unforgivable sin of being an individual. And that's bad for all of us.
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Tarqiup Inua

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #91 on: June 11, 2013, 12:34:15 pm »

On a different note, I find it silly how anyone thinks something like this: http://trollthensa.com/ might cause NSA serious trouble... they ask every single person to send someone exactly the same string of characters, I mean - seriously, how hard can that be to filter it off before evaluating your data? I bet it will make maybe five to a dozen of their people busy for say... 2 hours? This can't work too well unless the text with keywords is randomly generated or unless the system NSA has is seriously flawed.

EDIT: So much for overuse of the word "seriously", today :)
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Eagleon

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #92 on: June 11, 2013, 12:41:49 pm »

Welp, a lot of character attacks on Snowden for, and I kid you not, being responsible for:
"the rising tide of distrust, the corrosive spread of cynicism, the fraying of the social fabric"
And here is an abbreviated list of things he supposedly betrayed:
"He betrayed honesty and integrity, the foundation of all cooperative activity."
"He betrayed the cause of open government."
"He betrayed the privacy of us all. If federal security agencies can’t do vast data sweeps, they will inevitably revert to the older, more intrusive eavesdropping methods."
"He betrayed the Constitution. The founders did not create the United States so that some solitary 29-year-old could make unilateral decisions about what should be exposed. Snowden self-indulgently short-circuited the democratic structures of accountability, putting his own preferences above everything else."

Yes, you see, Snowden has committed the unforgivable sin of being an individual. And that's bad for all of us.
And the propaganda begins, wholesale. You know, those Orwellian societies never end well once it becomes obvious people are being puppeteered. People can't actually believe this is ok, can they? That poll posted earlier gives me the shivers, but I really want to believe it's faked. People know about the fourth amendment, right? I mean it's in the single digits, sub-five even. You don't have to go far down the list to see that this was a giant 'fuck you, you're ours'
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #93 on: June 11, 2013, 12:45:48 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ah, the Anon response gives hope. The social media response is just as good at losing hope though.

Scelly9

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #94 on: June 11, 2013, 12:49:33 pm »

Best rap song ever.
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RedKing

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #95 on: June 11, 2013, 04:09:17 pm »

LOL....just got another memo at work reminding us of the policy about not viewing leaked info on govt hardware.
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Sheb

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #96 on: June 11, 2013, 04:21:21 pm »

Why is it okay for you to look at it on your own iPhone, but not on government hardware?
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kaijyuu

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #97 on: June 11, 2013, 04:23:19 pm »

I'm just here to say Mr. Snowden is a damn sexy man.

Those glasses~
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Scoops Novel

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Scelly9

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #99 on: June 11, 2013, 04:28:55 pm »

I'm just here to say Mr. Snowden is a damn sexy man.

Those glasses~
Agreed.
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alway

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Re: Bets on how Snowden will be discredited?
« Reply #100 on: June 11, 2013, 04:52:49 pm »

So there is definite utility to getting at online data like this. But there's definitely a lot of potential for abuse, especially this notion of "let us collect EVERYTHING and then we'll only go back and mine it after the fact". I've heard some pundits from the intel community pointing to the Tsarnaevs as proof of this and saying that they were able to go look at their Facebook, email, etc. and quickly determine their links. To which my response is: Big fucking whoop. Didn't do much good to stop them in Boston. And it still took locking down an entire major American city for two days and an old-fashioned manhunt to track them down. It's not Minority Report. No amount of intel is going to let you predict and prevent attacks because the level of detail you'd need would be unacceptably intrusive, and you'd be completely buried in that same level of detail for the 99.99% of the populace who AREN'T a threat.
This bit actually isn't really true. Case in point, Watson. It isn't people sifting through the data you should worry about. They don't, and it's how they stay technically legal. "No one is listening to your phone calls," that statement is accurate. Because that would be inefficient in the highest degree. Computer programs are what is dealing with this data. It's a Big Data project, which is extremely evident both from how the NSA has been talking about it and how the information is handled/collected. This data is quite clearly being used as training sets for learning algorithms; which, again, is in line with what the NSA has stated.

The program is almost certainly as large or larger than Watson, which itself used a bit over 400 learning algorithms in combination with a meta-self-analysis of how those algorithms performed compared to one another in a variety of self-defined categories. If IBM did that as a small side-project, you can damn well bet the NSA has a much better one for surveillance. After all, unlike IBM, such a project falls smack dab in the middle of their mission goals.

Then there's a question of capability: what is it able to do, what is its purpose. Quite frankly, I actually believe the NSA's answer that it is using this data for investigating 'foreign threats.' The reason I believe it is because the data they are looking at would be very useful for such a purpose, and for the reasons they have stated (a control group). In training such learning algorithms, that metadata would be very useful. A pattern recognition system capable of picking out such threats would be very low-hanging fruit indeed, and if they didn't have such a system, I would call them pants-on-head incompetent. As a result of that and the agency's current primary mission goals, I would say that yes, they do have a very powerful system for detecting foreign-based groups planning 'events' in the US.

I would also say they probably don't have a system for accurately detecting domestic threats -- yet. However, that is the next low-hanging fruit. If they don't have one 5 years from now, color me shocked.  And when I say domestic threats, I both mean violent and activist groups. Lone wolves who keep to themselves would be a good deal harder to detect. That isn't to say they don't have some sort of system/s for detecting them today; they do. But they are still likely quite primitive, requiring a rather large amount of manual labor to investigate leads. By the time the next president is sworn in, pretty much all the systems for a largely-automated surveillance state will probably be in place. And that is what I'm more worried about.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #101 on: June 11, 2013, 04:58:26 pm »

Considering how much they actively target and act against nonviolent activist groups, I wouldn't be surprised if they were already using it against them. I'd be more surprised if anyone actually cared when it comes out, again, that they are. :/
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Sir Finkus

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« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 05:38:46 pm by Sir Finkus »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #103 on: June 11, 2013, 05:45:12 pm »

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1613914n
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznaD8yzVjM
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Snowden Saga: Dissapeared or On the Run?
« Reply #104 on: June 11, 2013, 05:58:10 pm »

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1613914n
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznaD8yzVjM
lolx2
Based Biden.
Why do people vote in a system where they vote for the person they hate the least?

I'm wondering what the UK elections will look like. AVP, at the very least, is going to be coming up again quickly i hope.
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