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Author Topic: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights  (Read 105171 times)

smjjames

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1215 on: December 13, 2014, 01:18:00 pm »

If they start jailing political opponents, then things have definetly gone VERY wrong.
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Frumple

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1216 on: December 13, 2014, 01:24:43 pm »

... um, it's pretty far past that point? US organizations have been spuriously jailing activists and whatnot for years now. I guess if you mean actual politicians it's not quite there yet (at least not often, anyway), but. Yeah.
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smjjames

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1217 on: December 13, 2014, 01:26:47 pm »

... um, it's pretty far past that point? US organizations have been spuriously jailing activists and whatnot for years now. I guess if you mean actual politicians it's not quite there yet (at least not often, anyway), but. Yeah.

I meant actual politicians.
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Baffler

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1218 on: December 13, 2014, 01:30:21 pm »

... um, it's pretty far past that point? US organizations have been spuriously jailing activists and whatnot for years now. I guess if you mean actual politicians it's not quite there yet (at least not often, anyway), but. Yeah.

I only meant activists, but now that private communications can be collected people who privately express the same sentiments can find themselves charged in the same way. It probably won't happen unless they directly antagonize the folks in charge, but it will allow harsher fines and jail sentences. They didn't put that in for no reason, it will eventually be used, but again probably in the form of politically motivated investigations.
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SalmonGod

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1219 on: December 13, 2014, 05:05:25 pm »

I think we've been at that point for years already.  Keep your head down, and you can have whatever political opinions you want.  But there's been plenty of evidence that you will be targeted in the U.S. if you become outspoken in any way outside of establishment, and data collection/surveillance will be used against you to find any excuse to shut you up.
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Sergarr

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1220 on: December 13, 2014, 05:53:28 pm »

I think we've been at that point for years already.  Keep your head down, and you can have whatever political opinions you want.  But there's been plenty of evidence that you will be targeted in the U.S. if you become outspoken in any way outside of establishment, and data collection/surveillance will be used against you to find any excuse to shut you up.
Sounds a lot like the situation in Russia.
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Sheb

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1221 on: December 13, 2014, 05:55:19 pm »

Funny, I had the exact same though when reading SalmonGod's post.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1222 on: December 13, 2014, 05:57:57 pm »

Anyone going to watch that Russian tv series that's going to be about not-Snowden?

palsch

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1223 on: December 13, 2014, 06:26:13 pm »

A better article on the new bill.

It is essentially enshrining an active executive order (originally Regan's, but amended by Bush) in legislation. Techdirt see this as negative, legitimising the collection. I'm less opposed to it in principle for two reasons;

1) Saying that legislation legitimises executive orders is akin to saying that executive orders are not legitimate forms of government, which I disagree with.

2) Legislation is far more open to debate and reform than executive orders (IMO). The potential for debate and revision are higher, especially for topics such as these where the subject comes up in each appropriation bill. The actors cycle more frequently and are more accountable, as well as being able to make names for themselves by aligning with current anti-surveillance trends of thought.

In this case I do think it was a silly law. I don't imagine that they would ban such collections, but they haven't even put in place serious oversight. The five year limit is absurdly high. There is no requirement for any minimisation procedures or similar. I feel they ought to have made any collection at least equal in accountability to the FISA programs.

As for why I don't see them banning such collection, the 12333 collection is (as noted in the section 309 title) incidental. It's information collected as part of surveillance of a legitimate target (eg, non-citizen outside of US territory targeted for some reason). Unless the US gets out of the signal intelligence game entirely you are going to have such surveillance and going to have incidental collection of information that this law addresses. Which (and again, IMO) is where you want aggressive congressional standards for minimisation and accountability.
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Baffler

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1224 on: December 13, 2014, 06:31:51 pm »

Anyone going to watch that Russian tv series that's going to be about not-Snowden?

It was surprisingly hard to find this without the title, so here's a thing about it. All I got from looking up the title that article gives is some kind of Soviet era song Putin sang at some point in the near-past.

It sounds kinda interesting, I guess, though I'm not holding out for an English sub/dub.
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Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

Loud Whispers

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1225 on: January 18, 2017, 05:56:43 pm »

TheBiggerFish

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1226 on: January 19, 2017, 01:00:07 am »

How did I not know this thread existed.
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Strife26

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1227 on: January 19, 2017, 01:00:31 am »

How did I not know this thread existed.

Nat'l security.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1228 on: January 19, 2017, 01:09:39 am »

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Loud Whispers

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Re: NSA Leaks - GHCQ in court for violation of human rights
« Reply #1229 on: January 19, 2017, 04:34:31 am »

Need to know basis
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