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Author Topic: Advice for the fort without mountainhome  (Read 2313 times)

Matoro

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Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« on: June 07, 2013, 07:37:42 am »

I've got a wonderful (=bloody) small world. During its history the Dwarven civilization, The Defensive Lancers, were wiped out at the year 123, just two years ago. After their 12th king was killed by a roc, the Elven civilization of The Season of Tenderness declared war and attacked to the mountainhomes. They fought three wars. In the final one the Elves had teamed up with the Goblins. At year 56, in the fourth battle of Bellsieges, Dwarven capital, Elves got finally decisive victory and crushed Dwarven resistance completetly. They destroyed the mountainhome and three other Dwarven fortresses and continued until there was no sites left for the Dwarves.

It's now the year 125, and I've founded the fortress of Saker Anil, "Echo of Glory".

And then to the gameplay part. Because I don't have civilization alive, I won't get migrants other than the first two waves, right? So this means that I have to reclaim the Dwarven glory with very few dwarves. I'm in war with the Elves and the Goblins. My site has gold, copper, iron ores and flux, so materials won't be problem. Which would be the most effective way to handle sieges and ambushes? Giant trap corridors? What would be the Dwarviest possible way to reclaim the ancient Dwarven glory?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 07:42:00 am by Matoro »
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Deepblade

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 08:03:28 am »

The first 2 waves are hard coded IRRC. Well, with numbers being so scarce you'd want to get people married. to do that you need idle Dwarves, or if you got 2 people in mind you can lock them in a rood with food, booze, and no job. I think there's a thread around about dwarven romance. If not, there's the eugenics thread.
Keeping your people safe and alive is even more important since you're near extinction. I'd suggest 3-5 of the surviving population being military dwarves, men so the babies aren't dragged into combat. Because of bug 0006334 you should avoid using blunt weapons on fort born dwarves.

The dwarviest way to reclaim your glory would be to A) build a statue of the new king, so that your enemies will know their knew foe and your people will know their salvation. Extra points if it's obsidian cast. SUPER Extra points if you equip the statue with a weapon and armor from the appropriate materials. B) Purify the world with magma. Extra points if you build your own volcano to do it with. C) Live. Nothing pisses your enemy off more than you being alive. There's a saying, "The best revenge is living well and being happy."

You may get more interested and invested in your fort if you also chronicle its history from the pov of its leader. I did that with my last fort and enjoyed it twice as much as usual. If your fort turns out cool you'd then have a sweet story to share.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 08:05:18 am by Deepblade »
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avdpos

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 08:54:52 am »

Can you a king in such a fort? I mean, that would take a LOT of patience and  right get the population.
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Deepblade

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 09:10:28 am »

Because there is no king one should never migrate in, and I'm not sure if it can become appointed once you reach the requirements. But, if not you can mod the entity folder for Kings to be appointed, and just RP it as the dwarven council has chosen Urist Berustos to be Etar(King) of Dwarves. Once you have the marriages getting babies is easy. In fact, one dwarf I had was pretty much constantly pregnant.
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PrimusRibbus

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 09:57:19 am »

Unfortunately, the "Dwarves and animals don't grow to full size if born in your fortress" bug means that you will likely not be able to create an effective military out of anyone but your starting dwarves and your two waves of migrants. See http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6334

I advise going heavy on traps and things like weaponized minecarts.
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Matoro

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2013, 10:09:14 am »

The dwarviest way to reclaim your glory would be to A) build a statue of the new king, so that your enemies will know their knew foe and your people will know their salvation. Extra points if it's obsidian cast. SUPER Extra points if you equip the statue with a weapon and armor from the appropriate materials. B) Purify the world with magma. Extra points if you build your own volcano to do it with.

This is a quite sweet idea. I have already planned the statue - only problem is that my embark is only 17 z-levels high, so I'll have to do some terraforming first.

Unfortunately, the "Dwarves and animals don't grow to full size if born in your fortress" bug means that you will likely not be able to create an effective military out of anyone but your starting dwarves and your two waves of migrants. See http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6334

I advise going heavy on traps and things like weaponized minecarts.

I've read that thread, too. Either I'll use only marksdwarves and goblinite miners or just I'll make overly complex deathtrap-thing (and paint my walls to elf blood).

Which features/attributes are actually in genetics and which are not? Does it really matter who the parents are? Or should I find the best-attributed dwarves and make them couple?
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Deepblade

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2013, 10:46:47 am »

I think there's rudimentary genetics in so far as what a dwarf will be described to look like. Size may also be able to be bred for, but finding 2 dwarves that are above the average is kinda rare. likes and dislikes may possibly passed down from each generation, one guy gave an example of how a bloodline he made that started with 2 dwarves that liked crossbows churned out children that tended to like Crossbows. Actual physical attributes like strength and agility aren't a part of the inheritance as far as I know, or if it is it's not very strong. I've not super read the thread, so there may be some other stuff.

But, if you like copper eyes and burnt umber skin, but hate large swinging earlobes and hook noses, you can certainly breed for that. There can be kids from those blood lines that are born with different looks rarely. DFHack has a thing for extending Z-levels if you have it.
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CognitiveDissonance

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2013, 11:04:15 am »

I wonder if DFHack could be used to eventually spawn a king...
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slothen

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2013, 11:13:18 am »

To make your life a bit easier, try and generate as much wealth and dig as much as possible in the first year, so that you maximize the effect of those two migrant waves.  An easy way to do that would be to bring lots of wood and ore and crank out a ton of bronze disks and such.

I often rely on migrants for skilled metalworkers, but for this fort you should definitely bring a proficient weaponsmith and proficient armorsmith.  I also recommend a mechanic, diagnostician, planter, brewer, cook, 2 miners. All else is optional.  A military dwarf would also be a good idea (axedwarf/shield user or teacher/other is good).

You won't be able to rely on your home civ for domestic animals, so bring your dogs/cats/pigs/alpacas.

For defense, I would get traps up by the first autumn, and I would avoid going for the typical stockade/archers/drawbridge surface config.  Be ready to replace weapon/cage traps with something more advanced, like a dodgeme, or a flusher, or a goblin grinder.  You can also go for a long spike-trap hallway but it takes mechanics a while to set one up.  Definitely have a secondary entrance for traders, using a dual-bridge airlock design (although there can be problems, if you don't have stockpile space for everything, dwarves will leave stuff in the depot, and this means it would be inaccessible if the depot is left open for incoming traders -I think you can use a fake depot to get wagons to approach, and then only open your airlock depot while making the dummy one inaccessible, then you can leave your real depot accessible to your dwarves but blocked from hostiles as default).

Do train a military, with civilians in inactive marksdwarf squads, and a few small squads of full-time professionals.  Only use your military to deal with forgotten beasts and other unforseen circumstances.  Each dwarf death is a loss.
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CognitiveDissonance

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2013, 11:16:37 am »

Do train a military, with civilians in inactive marksdwarf squads, and a few small squads of full-time professionals.  Only use your military to deal with forgotten beasts and other unforseen circumstances.  Each dwarf death is a loss.

That is an excellent suggestion. For further reading:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Cross-training#National_self-defense_training

Also, I strongly suggest you bring dogs or any other creature from this list:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2012:War_Animals

War Animals will serve as very valuable meat shields for your dwarven population, and just as valuable early detection systems. A dog by the entrance can prevent your mason from getting an unlucky dagger in the toe brain.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 11:20:21 am by CognitiveDissonance »
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Matoro

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2013, 11:30:58 am »

DFHack has a thing for extending Z-levels if you have it.

What command it is, I can't find anything like that from command list of DFHack.

For defense, I would get traps up by the first autumn, and I would avoid going for the typical stockade/archers/drawbridge surface config.  Be ready to replace weapon/cage traps with something more advanced, like a dodgeme, or a flusher, or a goblin grinder.  You can also go for a long spike-trap hallway but it takes mechanics a while to set one up. 

I have 18 months (1½ years) before first traders (since no dwarves and war with elves, first caravan is humans, at summer of the second year). I planned to keep the fort locked down (only open twice for migrants) for that time and build long trap corridors with chasms (dodge-me) and start to engineering minecart shotgun/watergun.
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CognitiveDissonance

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2013, 11:35:26 am »

So you already embarked then, hey?

May I suggest cage traps to capture wild animals for training? Milk, wool and meat can go a long way. Also, as I mentioned, I love war animals.
For safety's sake, maybe only do so in caverns. But those animals will require a long time to tame.
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Ruhn

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 11:36:27 am »

Sounds like fun, without the dwarf liason I'm not sure if a count/baron can be appointed.  No idea what DF Hack can do, but spawning a liason may be possible?

It seems like I saw a succession fort that did this, but not sure what it was called.

VerdantSF

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2013, 11:37:30 am »

Unfortunately, the "Dwarves and animals don't grow to full size if born in your fortress" bug means that you will likely not be able to create an effective military out of anyone but your starting dwarves and your two waves of migrants. See http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6334

Edem II, the dwarf with the "bad luck" that revealed this bug, is one of my best soldiers.  My fortress is 40 years old and the locally born dwarves, once properly equipped, have been excellent goblinite miners.  Instead of danger rooms, I rely on small training squads of 2-3 dwarves.  Once they get to legendary in a weapon skill, they're moved into the larger elite squads that handle most of the combat. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With tiny dwarves in the military, my fortress has managed 762 total kill siege kills (ambushes aren't included in the above) with only 10 deaths, half of which were war grizzlies.  I think that's rather effective :D.

Deepblade

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Re: Advice for the fort without mountainhome
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 11:59:21 am »

It may only be the newest version of DFHack. Cause on mine I'm seeing a "Make Monarch" command as well as a "infiniteSky" command.

Quote from: CognitiveDissonance
A dog by the entrance can prevent your mason from getting an unlucky dagger in the toe brain.
You also may want to consider armoring your more valuable citizens, such as smithies, in at least leather armor, and a metal helmet. It's what I tend to do.

also, I thinkCognitiveDissonance may want pointers on how to get a world with no Dwarven civs/extinct Dwarves.
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