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[Dariush]

Me, GD, Nerjin, Tiruin.

Why those 4?

Process of elimination: you won't accept NQT and I won't accept you, TWS and GP.

Dariush, Sheep, Day, do you think I'm messing up here? if so, how?

I already voiced my views. I greatly dislike the team, but what is my humble opinion before the Great and Supreme Leader Lenglon, oh.

Dariush:

TWS:

Also:

Tiruin and TheWetSheep get moderate town points for downvoting the mission.

No they don't. If they're town, they didn't have any way to know there would be a spy on the team any more than the rest of us.

This is some of the stupidest logic I've seen. If we were spies, though, we would want the team passed, since it had at least one spy on it.

Huh, I thought I answered it.

Have you heard about such a thing as 'lie'? As 'deceit'? Have you considered the possibility that scum won't always upvote every team that contains a spy and downvote every team that doesn't? That they would want to look town? I realize that this possibility is extremely miniscule (because which spies don't want to be caught, duh), but I still think that it is worthy of consideration.

Does this mean that no information can be gained from who votes what? I mean, sure, it's not definite, but it doesn't mean it's meaningless.

FFS, stop twisting my words. I didn't say this, because this is stupid. No, spies won't always vote in their favour, but they will generally do so. I see no reason (well, other than that you're scum) why you keep assuming that there are only two radical possibilities - 'spies always vote in their favour' and 'votes are meaningless for alignment reads'.

I asked you "does this mean?", and you say I'm twisting your words? And does my last sentence there look like I'm talking about two radical possibilities? Also, saying you can get information out of it kind of goes against what you say at the top of the pyramid.

Well, I hoped you would be able to figure that by 'I didn't say this' I mean 'no, this doesn't mean what you said'. Apparently I overestimated your intelligence.

You radicalize the question because after I said that spies don't necessarily vote in their favour you immediatly jumped to the radically opposite point of view, that votes are entirely meaningless.

(What does FFS stand for?)

It's a prayer to freeformschooler, the mod of Warrens of Oric the Awesome.

- I don't care about the poll itself. If GD wants it to make a probability sheet, to hell with him. You refused to lock the team in until me and Nerjin answered it.

No I didn't. I wanted to wait until you came out of your lurking spree and answered some of the questions.

Lurking spree? Of what, two days running? Without even, oh, pointing it out? You instead simply said that you won't lock in until I and NQT answer the question. I don't see any mention of lurking whatsoever.

Birdy, could you please state in the title, in addition to the week and day, the current leader?

[Lenglon]

Dariush: why do you continue to refuse to answer my main question to you?

[birdy51]

Birdy, could you please state in the title, in addition to the week and day, the current leader?

It shall be done.

[Nerjin]

No to Griffpup, I'd say replace with Daruish.  If you still don't want to, I'd up vote it to give us a fighting chance.

that's fair but I don't understand why you dislike Pup more than Nerjin. what makes him different? Why do you prefer Dariush instead?

Why are you bringing it up like that? Why ask SPECIFICALLY for why I am more scummy than pup? Seems a bit odd to ask considering.

(What does FFS stand for?)

It's a prayer to freeformschooler, the mod of Warrens of Oric the Awesome.

Knowing you I was sure it meant "For Fuck's Sake."

[Lenglon]

No to Griffpup, I'd say replace with Daruish.  If you still don't want to, I'd up vote it to give us a fighting chance.

that's fair but I don't understand why you dislike Pup more than Nerjin. what makes him different? Why do you prefer Dariush instead?

Why are you bringing it up like that? Why ask SPECIFICALLY for why I am more scummy than pup? Seems a bit odd to ask considering.

Day specifically requested to have Dariush replace Pup. Day's reasoning for keeping Pup off the team is based on there being multiple scum on the Day 1 team. Both you and Pup were on the Day 1 team. Something apparently makes Day think Pup is more scummy than you. I want to know what that is.

[griffinpup]

WOOT!!!  I'm back early!  I will be responding to posts as they were written, and will probably post multiple times in a row, so don't freak out when I haven't responded to your question in my first post.
*sigh*
DarUIsh

GP:
I'm tired of your stupidity. You keep throwing the same accusations at me and ignore everything I answer or ask of you.

I'll assume that you think this is a scumtell.  Therefore, by your own reasoning, you're scum for ignoring all of this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Again, you claim NQT is far to intelligent to do something risky or unreliable.  I am, on the other hand, obviously scum because I HAVE DEFENSES AND THEY ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE.  Nice try, scum.

Find me ONE EXAMPLE OF WHEN THIS SCUMTELL EVER FOUND SCUM.
Also, what happened to those probabilities you remembered calculating?  Or were you just completely making that up?

And later in the thread:

Sigh
Dariush: please answer the question already. Twice now all you've done is tell me you think the way GriffPup accused NQT was scummy, how would you have made the accusation to avoid the problems you're complaining about? I'm really quite tired of you dodging the question so blatantly and poorly. Spy or Rebel, you're better than this.

Please quote any and all questions and statements I haven't responded to.  You can't just throw around statements like that without backing them up.  I'll gladly respond to any I missed.

You blatantly copy-pasted Lenglon's question before I even had the chance to answer it.

This is a scumtell how?  Also, quote where I "blatantly copy-pasted" this question.

You went from thinking I'm town to absolute certainty I'm a spy for the oh-so-very-scummy reason of accusing you (hint: that's called OMGUS. Go read up on it) of being scum.

You're scum because NQT was trying to communicate with someone.  You are by far the most reasonable explanation.  I don't think that NQT putting a viable scum strategy for sabotage when they double up on missions in the same post that he mentioned the possibility of switching you for Remuthra is mere coincidence.  The fact that he took your advice (someone he suspected to be scum) over three other people's advice and his refusal to answer my questions about the matter also confirms it for me.  Not to mention this complete chain-sawing attack on me.  This is NOT a mere OMGUS retaliation.

You ignored my question about intentionally provoking me by twisting my name. You actually quoted it and agreed that this is a scumtell, but then made no explanation for you behaviour whatsoever.

Apparently I didn't make myself clear enough.  I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S A VALID SCUMTELL.  In fact, I never did.  I asked you to find an example of when this supposed 'scumtell' worked because there isn't one.  The fact that you never responded to that particular part of my post while elaborating on the very sentences prior to that is very interesting. 
Also, isn't that your whole playstyle?  I feel like "intentionally provoking" people is what you do.  You insult people constantly.  If you think misspelling someone's name is worse then swearing at someone and openly insulting them then you are sorely mistaken.

You put words of my mouth about NQT being guaranteed town (he isn't), spy NQT being smarter (he isn't) and so on.

Your whole argument of why NQT is a rebel and I'm scum relies on two things. 
1.  NQT is stupid enough to make a honest mistake, and is merely a rebel being an idiot.
2.  If NQT is a spy, he would never attempt to communicate in such a risky or foolish fashion.

In claim one, you assume that NQT is stupid, or at least bad.  In claim two, you make the assumption that NQT is intelligent and good enough to never attempt such a risky play.  These two claims are contradictory.  I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE!!! I'm not putting words into your mouth, I'm explaining the logical fallacy in your assumptions.

You completely ignore the possibility of scum lying low (I infer this from the fact that you say with absolute certainty that there was exactly one scum on the failed mission).

Now you're just being intentionally stupid.  If I ignored the possibility of scum lying low, I wouldn't think NQT was a spy, would I?  Regardless, when did I say with absolute certainty that there was exactly one scum on the failed mission?

You say that 'scum doesn't have to catch [the words] for town to find an attempt to communicate'. But in this case, why would scum reveal themselves if it won't even help them?

My argument is that it WOULD help them, by avoiding a double or no sabotage attempt on mission two.  So to answer your question, scum wouldn't reveal themselves if it wouldn't potentially help them.  BUT there was plenty of potential gain from what NQT did.

My argument that doing what NQT did isn't something scum would do is that it makes no sense from the scum perspective. Doing what you did makes complete sense.

How is what I'm doing make sense from scum perspective?  How is that different from NQT?

So, Daruish, do you still think NQT is squeaky clean town despite refusing to answer anyone's questions?  You claim that you don't consider him "guaranteed town" but since I've pointed out his communication you've yet to ask him a single question, comment on a single one of his answers, or respond to a single accusation against him, apart from mine.  WHY ARE YOU COMPLETELY IGNORING HIM?

First of all, I ran out of time to send Birdy a PM describing my vote on the team.  I was going to downvote it anyways, so not voting actually accomplished the same thing anyways.
And I downvoted the team not necessarily because I disagreed with the picks in and of themselves, but because TWS gave the some of the weakest explanations yet seen in this game for the team.  Also, despite significant discussion along with suggestions about the team prior to him locking in the choice, he locked in the exact same team with no changes.

[Nerjin]

Two things Pup:

Stop doing the Daruish. It's kinda a dick move and you seem like a nice guy. Dariush is a raging ball of hatred at most points so it works for him. For you it just doesn't and is slightly annoying.

Secondly do you plan to do as such to everyone? Cause we're sorta running low on time. For mission 4 I say "Go at it." But for now we just DO NOT have time for this. Please be quick on your reads of the people on the Lenglon team and whom your perfect team would be please? We just don't have time for these huge posts.

[griffinpup]

Two things Pup:

Stop doing the Daruish. It's kinda a dick move and you seem like a nice guy. Dariush is a raging ball of hatred at most points so it works for him. For you it just doesn't and is slightly annoying.

Secondly do you plan to do as such to everyone? Cause we're sorta running low on time. For mission 4 I say "Go at it." But for now we just DO NOT have time for this. Please be quick on your reads of the people on the Lenglon team and whom your perfect team would be please? We just don't have time for these huge posts.

...
1.  I'm actually quite cordial to people that are in kind.  I do tend to "Dariush" people that are being intentionally stupid or are "raging balls of hatred".  I'm also at the point of experimenting what type of play-style I like best, and have recently tried rage-mode.

2.  No, I don't plan on doing that with everyone.
I will note your suggestions, however.

[Griffionday]

Both you and Pup were on the Day 1 team. Something apparently makes Day think Pup is more scummy than you. I want to know what that is.

Gut instinct?  I'd of course prefer to have neither of them be there, but something feels off about how griffinpup is being selectively analytical compared to how he felt when I was defending against him.  He also acted odd (not particularly scummy) when revealing his thoughts on the possibility of NQT's communication (could just be a time issue really, and wanting to do his read justice, but still off.  Nerjin has been playing a pretty flat game; nothing really notably bad about it, but nothing stellar; so while I'm not satisfied he's town, pup has been the more volatile while playing and so who I'd remove.

Reads:
NQT: Scum
griffinpup || Nerjin: Probable scum
griffinpup: Seems to be flailing a bit more than I recall
Nerjin: Boring game, need to re-read him.  Some of his attacks have seemed to be on overly trivial stuff, but that could be just to keep the game going.
Daruish: town based on... Wow, really brain, nothing? %$#@... I need to re-read him.
Tiruin: Town, nothing really to go off of, but I like her down votes and reasons there for.
Lenglon: Town: I really doubt she'd go through the reads she did if she were a spy (a lot of work with little reward, unless she's playing a better scum game than the last one I was in).
Sheep: Scum, mostly on the strength of the other player's reads though.

[Nerjin]

Nerjin has been playing a pretty flat game; nothing really notably bad about it, but nothing stellar; so while I'm not satisfied he's town, pup has been the more volatile while playing and so who I'd remove.
Nerjin: Boring game, need to re-read him.  Some of his attacks have seemed to be on overly trivial stuff, but that could be just to keep the game going.

I'm sorry my posts haven't been a spectacle... Wait... Is this better?

In other news: While I'm sure that Sheep is scum you have awful reasons to believe this and should not think he's scum simply because some others have a good case. Which parts of our reads of Sheep concinved you he's scum?

[Lenglon]

time's running short, my current proposed team is:

Lenglon
Tiruin
Nerjin
GriffPup

yeah, it's unchanged from before. Dariush has not been compelling, and neither has Day. at least not so far.

Dariush's scumteam-picks are based upon me as scum. for self-evident reasons, I don't believe them. His individual case on Pup has not been compelling, and he has refused to answer my primary question to him on the subject for days upon end. Dariush's case on sheep is reasonable, although not as well fleshed out as the cases presented by Tiruin and Nerjin. Dariush still thinks NQT is town. I don't understand why.

Day's reasoning makes sense, there is a reasonable chance that there were two scum on the first team instead of one. I'm currently planning on going ahead and sending both Nerjin and Pup despite this, because I find Dariush's current actions quite scummy, and I consider Dariush being scum incompatible with either of them being scum. Day also considers Dariush being scum incompatible with Pup or Nerjin being scum as far as I'm aware, but thinks that it is more likely that NQT was correcting a mistake from the first mission rather than attempting to communicate with Dariush. I consider this less likely than Dariush being scum, because of how reluctant NQT was to place Dariush on the team, and how much more weight he gave Dariush's opinion than anyone else's.

Nerjin thinks I am scum, but as an alternative, he would strongly prefer that I keep Sheep off the team, because of sheep's flailing and weak cases in general, which Nerjin feels he pressed to hard to be considered town. I do not know Nerjin's opinion regarding Pup and Dariush. I think he considers Pup town, so by process of elimination I would assume he thinks Dariush is scum. I have not noticed Nerjin say this directly however.

Tiruin I don't understand what she thinks of the situation. What I last understood was that she thinks Pup, Nerjin, and Dariush are all townie enough to be sent on mission. However the entire issue that NQT was caught-out on as scum was communicating to his teammates, and that list includes all the options for who he could have been communicating with. This has left me without viable data for what she thinks of the possbile scumteam combinations.

Sheep has basically agreed with what I've said thus far, and has not voiced a signifigant opinion as to the possible team choices.

NQT is confirmed scum.

Pup thinks Dariush is scum, and that NQT is scum. I have not noticed Pup voice an opinion about who the third scum is.

also, everyone has become a ton less active the last several days. I'm pretty disappointed about it.

I'm going to have to lock in the team tomorrow, have I missed anything?
I'm still unsure if sheep is simply new-town or scum, but his actions today have not at all supported a case of him being town. Buddying me hard doesn't earn townie points from me.
My alternate choice for that role is still Day, because his gameplay is reminicent of the BM I played with him. I considered him being scum incompatible with Dariush being scum for quite some time, however I recently remembered that Shinigami likes to induce WIFOM. as a result I no longer considering such a pairing incompatible (Shinigami trying to get Dariush on the team with NQT would fully count as a WIFOM-inducing situation, but I can see him doing it to lay groundwork for lategame), although it doesn't count any evidence to him being scum either.

[Griffionday]

Lenglon:

What is your case against me actually? 

Because you seem to be putting quite a lot of weight on a meta read that I frankly a bit weird.  I'm quite simply not playing at the level I was in that game, nor paying the level of attention that I was in that game.  I'm having difficulty due to a schedule that's far more blocky than my school schedule in terms of having spare hours to devote.  On top of this I was deliberately trying to act as town in the BM, so what is the scum tell that I was displaying in the BM that I am currently displaying?

[Lenglon]

to be honest? not sure. was wondering how you'd react to vague and undefendable accusations so I made some. what little i've seen I mentioned last time you asked me this.

Lenglon:

-snip-
going by memory here, Day hasn't done much either.
And I remember how Day plays as scum from working with him last BM.

Wait... During the BM I just posted some gibberish about probabilities and lurked like crazy?  I like to think that I would have critiqued your team and in general be less awful at playing this game if I were scum.

you as scum last BM:
Day 1: opportunistic, pretty defensive, don't expose yourself much
Day 2: Tunnel Leafsnail hard, ignore everyone else
Day 3: Lurk until the end, then pull vote shenanigans

generating a cover story (gibberish about probabilities) and lurking hard is actually almost exactly what you did last BM as scum. If you thought you were going to be an automatic team member (which I was implying up until my last post) then you'd keep your activity down to a bare-bones minimum to avoid disturbing a townie read of you.

I'm less certain of who the onlooker-scum is than who the talked-to-scum is. you, sheep, and Tiruin are the canidates for the onlooker-scum. not a single person other than me has gotten a scumread of Tiruin. So for now of the three of you, she's on the team.

[griffinpup]

Read time and make-team time. 

First of all, my proposed team.

Lenglon
Griffinpup
Nerjin
Griffionday

Bah.  Most of my reasoning centers around NQT communicating.  While NQT's recent behavior merely confirms that he's scum, I still feel bad about "putting all my eggs in one basket."
Lenglon:  Because she will put herself on any team today anyways, so it's useless to propose teams without her on it regardless of your personal reads on Lenglon.
Griffinpup:  Because I have a very town read on this fellow. (If you want me to prove my towniness, raise specific concerns.  Don't just say prove it.
Nerjin:  Because I think that Dariush and NQT are scum.  The communication attempt points directly to Dariush.  If these two are indeed scum, it's almost certain that Nerjin is not.  There's no reason to place two scum on the first mission if you yourself are scum.  He has also been fairly solid the whole game and I see nothing particularly about him.
Griffionday:  I don't see him as scum because his predecessor's actions are completely incompatible with a NQT Dariush Griffionday scum team.  Shinigami was the one who suggested to switch Dariush with Remuthra.  I see them as the 2 most likely scum candidates, I'm putting him on the team.  The rest of Shinigami's actions prior to being replaced also speak of indifference and lack of time as opposed to scummitude.

Those not on the team:

NQT:  His attempt at communication, followed by refusing to answer questions from ANYONE after I pointed it out.  I've made my opinion clear on this matter, and I don't really think I need to elaborate on this one.

Dariush:  I believe that Dariush is on the receiving end of the communication attempt by NQT.  The attempt wasn't before the first mission, which leads me to believe that there wasn't a double up on that mission.  It would of been much easier and less risky for NQT to hide communication in RVS, as opposed to waiting halfway through day two to do so.  I believe that the exact timing is also important.  It was right after three people tried to push Dariush on the team as opposed to Remuthra.  Dariush then spoke up, saying that he'd rather not be on the team.  NQT LISTENS TO HIM, someone he supposedly suspected to be scum, over the three other people's opinions.  The fact that NQT refuses to answer my questions on the incident clinches it for me.  There is also the fact that he still considers NQT to be town, despite his putrid playing the past few days.

Sheep:  TWS has inanely pushed points of little or no weight as hard as he could, and has done little else.  TWS really deserves a reread, but time is short, so I'll do this from memory.  He posted a suggestion team then never discussed the suggested changes to said team.  He then posted the exact same team, without added explanation to justify it.

Tiruin:  The least scummy of the people not on my team.  I actually wouldn't mind very much if Tiriun was switched with GriffDay.  She's played a solid game so far, but there's nothing that shouts "townie" to me, as opposed to Shinigami.

I don't think I missed anything, but tell me if I'm wrong.  If anyone has any urgent questions for me, quote or ask them again, and I'll respond to those first.

[notquitethere]

Come on buddy! I'm not refusing to answer any questions. I'll answer questions. I was a bit busy last week so I might have missed some things, but rest assured that I will happily answer any questions.