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[Nerjin]

Nerjin:

Tiruin: Quite town.

Why? Please state reasons.

As I said before, she seems to be the one putting the most thought into the game, trying to figure out things instead of upvoting every team and waiting for information to fall into her lap.

I still stick beside my day one decisions on the matter but I can understand how you feel that Tiriun is acting town. HOWEVER I think you're being a bit harsh of people who are simply upvoting. They're not being sheep [I MADE A JOKE!!! VALIDATE ME WITH LAUGHTER!!!] because each of them has given a reason as to why they're voting the way they were.

Nerjin: Very slight scum. Mostly based off my gut, though.

Please point out specific examples that set off your scum-dar please. It's hard for others to follow what you mean with vague things such as gut feelings.

Where you agree that there's nothing to base suspicions off D1, yet still ask RVS questions is one example.
[/quote]

If that's the base of your argument that I'm scum I advise you to stop. There ISN'T anything to base suspicion on Day 1. RVS doesn't change that. RVS helps catch slip ups in later game. It also allows me to see how people are thinking. Anyone who tried to build a case on Day 1 would be forced to "He answered this hypothetical question this way! HE MUST BE SCUM!" which leads to WIFOM. Trust me, the RVS has its purpose in this game but not until later.

Also:

I might be wrong sheep but... You still haven't posted your vote yet have you?

Were you talking about sending in my vote or posting in-thread? The wording seems to mean the latter. I find that suspicious, since scum would want to know what I was voting.

I was talking about sending in your vote since you said that you weren't sending it in right away. I simply guessed it was you who was holding us up. But someone wanting to know how you're voting isn't scummy if only ONE person hasn't posted their vote. When you're the last person the scum can't really switch their vote at the last second because to my understanding the voting stops once the last vote is cast.

Remuthra: I don't know. He gave up, yes, but I can't tell if it's defeatist town or defeatist scum. It would be a huge benefit to his credibility if he came back and started playing again, though.

NO! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! DO NOT FALL INTO THIS TRAP! I did the same thing last Rev. Simply coming back and playing isn't enough. You must play well. In fact I would say the fact that he quit because of WIFOM that hadn't even been directed at him yet is plenty of reason to hazard that he has a guilty conscious.

OK, I get it now. Especially since a townie would need us to trust him because if we don't get all 5 of us on the last team it'll fail.

I don't get what you mean by this. Are you accusing me of something or just musing?

I also still disagree with [Dariush] on some points that we argued about, because I'm wary of arguing with someone who will insult me because I disagree with him.

I used to be like that. Just go with it. You'll get more comfortable with arguing with someone who will insult ya. That's just his way.

[Dariush]

Dariush, why am I scummy?

Because of your logic regarding NQT and SK on the team, treating my request to be switched off the team in entirely the wrong way and juggling your suspected spyteams, so first Remuthra is a spy, then he is not a spy simultaneously with me, but you still don't want to take him, while either Nerjin or NQT is certainly a spy, so let's take NQT because lol why not.

Protip: there's no need to repeat the questions if there's only been three posts since the last one, not a single one of which was mine.

Eh. I have a problem where it's kind of hard to deal with knowing that other people are angry at me. It's kind of a bad thing when playing Mafia, but it's also one of the things I hope playing it will improve.

Hey, I'm not angry at you. If I insult you, it means I wish to add emphasis to my words that will psychologically weaken the recipient and make him less resistive to my words. I become angry at people whose stupidity I fail to overpower regardless of the amount of effort put into the process, and the amount of insults required to do so becomes astronomically high, so I just give up (see: NQT, Cado).

[TheWetSheep]

Nerjin:

If that's the base of your argument that I'm scum I advise you to stop. There ISN'T anything to base suspicion on Day 1. RVS doesn't change that. RVS helps catch slip ups in later game.

Have you ever seen this work? "He answered this hypothetical question this way, but then when it actually came up he did a different thing" seems both very unlikely and a pretty weak reason.

Also:

I might be wrong sheep but... You still haven't posted your vote yet have you?

Were you talking about sending in my vote or posting in-thread? The wording seems to mean the latter. I find that suspicious, since scum would want to know what I was voting.

I was talking about sending in your vote since you said that you weren't sending it in right away. I simply guessed it was you who was holding us up. But someone wanting to know how you're voting isn't scummy if only ONE person hasn't posted their vote. When you're the last person the scum can't really switch their vote at the last second because to my understanding the voting stops once the last vote is cast.

This was before that question:

3/4 of the votes have been received.

Voting will end on Wednesday at 10PM EST.

Tiruin also hadn't sent in her vote.

I don't get what you mean by this. Are you accusing me of something or just musing?

Just musing.

Dariush:

Eh. I have a problem where it's kind of hard to deal with knowing that other people are angry at me. It's kind of a bad thing when playing Mafia, but it's also one of the things I hope playing it will improve.

Hey, I'm not angry at you. If I insult you, it means I wish to add emphasis to my words that will psychologically weaken the recipient and make him less resistive to my words. I become angry at people whose stupidity I fail to overpower regardless of the amount of effort put into the process, and the amount of insults required to do so becomes astronomically high, so I just give up (see: NQT, Cado).

Heh, okay.

Well then, my proposition for Day 1 would be for the mission leader to hold an unofficial vote. It would behave exactly like a normal vote. That way, bandwagoning and some other scumtells come back into play. Keep in mind that just because the scumteam can't communicate doesn't mean they don't know who each other are.

Also:

Tiruin and TheWetSheep get moderate town points for downvoting the mission.

No they don't. If they're town, they didn't have any way to know there would be a spy on the team any more than the rest of us.

This is some of the stupidest logic I've seen. If we were spies, though, we would want the team passed, since it had at least one spy on it.

[griffinpup]

One thing Dariush...  I don't think you're a spy.

[Nerjin]

One thing Dariush...  I don't think you're a spy.

BUDDYING! LYNCH IT! [I am joking... Sorry...]

[Tiruin]

PFP

One thing Dariush...  I don't think you're a spy.

Since when?

One thing Dariush...  I don't think you're a spy.

BUDDYING! LYNCH IT! [I am joking... Sorry...]

Why are you?

[TheWetSheep]

NQT: I know you think the only good information is gotten by mission outcomes and votes, but what about when we don't have enough of that, like, right now? Will you scumhunt, or continue to lurk?


OK. If Remuthra is a spy, and he probably is, let's think about this. He didn't want to be on the second mission. I can think of two plausible reasons for this:

1. There was a spy among the other three members.

2. He was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team instead of himself.

The first seems more likely initially, but there was only one sabotage. Either they communicated, got lucky, or this didn't happen. The second would implicate Dariush, since it looked like at that point it would be either Dariush or Remuthra going onto the mission.

What do you think?

[Tiruin]

NQT: I know you think the only good information is gotten by mission outcomes and votes, but what about when we don't have enough of that, like, right now? Will you scumhunt, or continue to lurk?


OK. If Remuthra is a spy, and he probably is, let's think about this. He didn't want to be on the second mission. I can think of two plausible reasons for this:

1. There was a spy among the other three members.

2. He was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team instead of himself.

The first seems more likely initially, but there was only one sabotage. Either they communicated, got lucky, or this didn't happen. The second would implicate Dariush, since it looked like at that point it would be either Dariush or Remuthra going onto the mission.

What do you think?

1. He said NOTHING on the notion or tried to say anything else.
2. He said NOTHING before hand but abstinence. My intuition is somehow not ringing scum on him, but I'm pretty annoyed at his professionalism/playstyle.

WHile both seem likely, we've nothing to base any of that on other than targeting everyone else as it looks like Remuthra is forever holding his peace.

2. Why would it implicate Dariush?
> Why does the first seem more likely, initially?

[notquitethere]

Sheep, I'm waiting until the vote comes in. I'll answer any questions but I'm not sure anything productive can be done before someone has proposed a team. I'm forming my own matrix of probabilities based on team failure and I'll use that to inform my voting.

[Nerjin]

2. He was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team instead of himself.

The first seems more likely initially, but there was only one sabotage. Either they communicated, got lucky, or this didn't happen. The second would implicate Dariush, since it looked like at that point it would be either Dariush or Remuthra going onto the mission.

What do you think?

I think that #2 isn't likely at all. What skill does it take to sabotage the mission? None at all. Simply put "I wanna sabotage the mission!" and boom you're done. How would a more experienced scum perform differently?

As for their only being one sabotage I doubt they communicated. BUT you mention that the second [getting lucky] would implicate Dariush. Mind if I ask what the hell you mean by that? How does the behavior of two spies [in that instance] indicate Dariush at all? He wasn't on the mission and didn't try to push anyone onto the mission. He simply said he didn't want to go. Why are you so intent on implicating him with no solid evidence scum?

[griffinpup]

PFP

One thing Dariush...  I don't think you're a spy.

Since when?

When did I say that I did?


Also, I have an inkling of how the spies might of communicated.  I don't want to say how though...  I'm in a dilemma...

[TheWetSheep]

Nerjin:

2. He was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team instead of himself.

The first seems more likely initially, but there was only one sabotage. Either they communicated, got lucky, or this didn't happen. The second would implicate Dariush, since it looked like at that point it would be either Dariush or Remuthra going onto the mission.

What do you think?

I think that #2 isn't likely at all. What skill does it take to sabotage the mission? None at all. Simply put "I wanna sabotage the mission!" and boom you're done. How would a more experienced scum perform differently?

Remuthra said that he didn't have the skill to convince people that he wasn't scum in that circumstance, where he was added to a successful team and the mission failed. He might have been wanting to get a scum with more experience to take his place, because they would have the skill to get out of all that suspicion.

As for their only being one sabotage I doubt they communicated. BUT you mention that the second [getting lucky] would implicate Dariush. Mind if I ask what the hell you mean by that? How does the behavior of two spies [in that instance] indicate Dariush at all? He wasn't on the mission and didn't try to push anyone onto the mission. He simply said he didn't want to go. Why are you so intent on implicating him with no solid evidence scum?

I meant the second option, as in

2. He was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team instead of himself.

Tiruin:

NQT: I know you think the only good information is gotten by mission outcomes and votes, but what about when we don't have enough of that, like, right now? Will you scumhunt, or continue to lurk?


OK. If Remuthra is a spy, and he probably is, let's think about this. He didn't want to be on the second mission. I can think of two plausible reasons for this:

1. There was a spy among the other three members.

2. He was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team instead of himself.

The first seems more likely initially, but there was only one sabotage. Either they communicated, got lucky, or this didn't happen. The second would implicate Dariush, since it looked like at that point it would be either Dariush or Remuthra going onto the mission.

What do you think?

1. He said NOTHING on the notion or tried to say anything else.
2. He said NOTHING before hand but abstinence. My intuition is somehow not ringing scum on him, but I'm pretty annoyed at his professionalism/playstyle.

I don't understand. Are these poking at my points 1&2?

2. Why would it implicate Dariush?

Because Remuthra tried to get Dariush onto the team instead of him.

> Why does the first seem more likely, initially?

Well, it seems like it would be the obvious reason, but there was only one sabotage, so it starts looking less likely.

[TheWetSheep]

Griffinpup: Are you going to tell us your idea? What's the problem with saying it? I'm going to hold off making my team pick until you do.

[Tiruin]

I don't understand. Are these poking at my points 1&2?

Aye. Prodding it.

If you'd pick Remuthra on the team, I will have to downvote it on the leisure of a doubt. He isn't participating.

At all. 

2. Why would it implicate Dariush?

Because Remuthra tried to get Dariush onto the team instead of him.

> Why does the first seem more likely, initially?

Well, it seems like it would be the obvious reason, but there was only one sabotage, so it starts looking less likely.

First: Did you see the reasons he's given? Why aren't you poking that?

Or are you following up a total blank which didn't even expound anything but throw out an assumption?

Second: Looking less likely how?

[griffinpup]

Griffinpup: Are you going to tell us your idea? What's the problem with saying it? I'm going to hold off making my team pick until you do.

Well you might wait a while.  I'm got going to say until I'm confident that I'm correct.  I'm NOT going to tell you just because you threaten to not make a team.  Telling you the problem with me saying it would defeat the purpose of me not saying it.