Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lenglon]

Tiruin:"I feel like I've explained my emotional reads poorly, I'd like to try to summarize them better, but I don't really have the right words for the exact feels I'm getting from people. Probably because they're kinda a mix of various things. I'll give it another shot though.

Normally Tiruin, you make me think of a young mother bear, attempting to protect her cubs from these... things... whatever they are (cars and the humans in them), that keep coming by. they don't seem like a threat, but how can you know? what can you do? if you go running off chasing them, something else might get your cubs, and you can't let that happen. So you watch, and you stand between them as best you can. and god help anything that attempts to get near your babies.

however, for some reason, this time you're more like a housecat watching a wounded hawk stuck thrashing about in your backyard. you wants it. oh yes you does. but you've got to be careful, those talons are sharp. so you grin, and you yawn, as you ever so slowly slip closer, and closer. patience... patience... patience...

as for Nerjin, he's more akin to a ship captain lost in fog. He's got no better clue than anyone else which way leads home, but he's got to hold firm, and set a confident example, no matter how confused he may be. so he stands straight at his post, excluding an aura of confidence and determination. and attempts to keep a steady hand until he can get through this storm.

Is... is this better?"

[Tiruin]

That was beautiful ;_;


"The goal is at hand, my dear. Fortunate enough it is for me to be near it--I see it; the squabbles and all the victory it entails, but what am I to it but a token?

"I may be a kitty cat, or probably a bear, but in both scenarios I have one goal. Survival. I see you're quite astute in picking that out and seeing my approach to them. I say you're coming along the lines of integrity and competence? Well, here, let me point out one thing.

"Spies are no different from townies in the way they act, or must act. They don't need to communicate with their allies; they don't need to communicate how or what their subtleties are. They just need to look like rebels enough. This is why I'm pouncing and taking every opportunity to watch and query. This is a game of communication more than anything else, and something I really enjoy.

"You can be a one man band, gain the trust of these people, and win the game by confounding your 'teammates', so to say. How to sift through who is sincere and who is malevolently scheming is the crux. This is the deal with my precision here. The mother can bring her cubs along, and protect them along the way so too as the cat can watch her prey die a slow, meaningless death as long as the wings are down. Strike alone, and strike surely.

"And yes that was better. I do enjoy your analogies. I'd like to ask where you saw my moodiness, however."

...Now let me get back to rereading >_<

If I missed any questions, do say.

why are you so hesitant to explain why you did that?

Hesitant is how you see it. I really don't see how you see I didn't answer on discussing why I voted as such. Seems like you're repeating things just to continue it, but that's just my busy-addled mind.

Here, I'm really bogged down by work and work and medical work..It is hell trying to get free time, and more hell to shift your mindset to a relaxation mode due to all the discussion about cells and their DNA. Anyway, I'm not hesitant to speak or explain 'about that' when I did explain those matters earlier.

Let me get links.


Week 2, Mission 2; Addendum. Continuation.

Day 1: vote against team containing a scumteam member, gain townie points for when it fails. even as a spy you would'nt know that the other spy/spies is/are going to lie low. Day 2: same action, same plan. Day 3: (strongest evidence, the other two are pretty weak, and simply reinforce my theory) you vote up for a team containing two of the people that were on the failed mission, including NQT who is pretty much certainly a spy.

...This is you trying to explain my actions, right? Because you just stated something which indirectly aims to answer the question.

I really don't get how most of it makes sense. Day 1 [Dar's infallible team]--this purely depends on the situation that [The mission has 2 spies] and [IF it fails], the townie points have to be awarded after the defense of such, and not depending on the conjunctive FAIL/PASS. On that note, that really irked me on the tell of Strawman. What were you answering there?

Day 2 [NQT's Failure]--Same action, same plan? This really annoys me, especially the latter two words. You're assuming something on a huge note that you didn't bother asking me beforehand on the details--you did ask and comment on the vote pattern, but did not prod on the details, asking me on why I did such despite it being stated in the link above.

Day 3--the Upvote.

This is Birdy's last pertinent post. Thrice damn information. Redoing checking manually.
[ZU: Your lurkertracker is broken. It did not track griffinpup's Last Vote. At all. Nor is it updated towards the current list of votes] But at least the posts remain counted. I'm pretty sure this isn't a browser based cache thing because of that.:/

The strikethrough is me typing my thoughts out before checking it all in and using those links for easy comparison.

The team.
The Votes.
> It lacked Remuthra, who was my foremost scumpick of the day due to his antics. The other two I had a fairly townish read going by process of elimination. What I can't get is how, in a woman of great intellect in language, can manage to word her sentence.

(strongest evidence, the other two are pretty weak, and simply reinforce my theory)

What other two? What theory?
That I voted up a team with NQT?

Two people who were on the failed team were NQT and griffinpup, both were vague at the time preceeding now. What you're poking at, and using as a fire poker here, is comparing now to before and judging my reasoning on those points? I don't see how that makes sense in marking me as scum.

Note that Remuthra voted, and refused to speak afterwards, hence forwarding my case on him. Which is pretty rude, really. [PS, I'm stuck with a bias against you because of what I really am still feeling against him. He did not even voice his opinion on the team other than downvote it.]

Yes it is annoying me even as I reread.


I've to comment on the NQT is a most certain spy part? He picked the team along that point, yet I'm also seeing how he's being wishy-washy at the moment. The lack of links to his big slip annoys me, but I-

Oh. This?

Hm, yeah.

I skimmed that part after reading the context, and judged it as something to think about later. People may say that's damnable evidence of scummitude, however I marked it under metamarks. It makes sense that the spy team would cue signals on the line of that notion, and in this case it is damnable, however I'd stay ambivalent on that case as NQT hasn't responded yet. Will it matter, you ask? Yes it would.

Another thought in my head is the impression on the wording. It doesn't seem like he's subtly putting in a message but just in stating a general fact. If reasoning is true on that path, then there are actually 2 spies in the first team. (Which would mark Dariush as town, unless it would be hilarious to mark him as the scum teamlead, and then see him pick two under a RNG, then see them flail.)

However, NQT. Why place that statement in your post? What was your intention behind it, and supposing you were a rebel, what use would it have served to everyone--those who read.

Lastly, I notice something in many of your posts. I've nothing to take but your word on the matter of you and your alter-ego being rebels. Why do you keep on pushing the comparison of the presence of a role and not pushing what your previous self has laid instead?

I see you did the reasoning on his..flailing back there, saying it was a town point (which I struggle to see, but not wholly disagree with), but what else can you say about him?

You did not defend one thing.

I can, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't want to go on the mission for the single reason that I could end up being written off as scum. I really have nothing whatsoever I can say to defend myself now besides "I told you it would happen". By definition, if I can't do anything to disprove your claims, either everyone has been told by the mod that I'm a spy, or a nice batch of WIFOM is being served.

Answer me, how does the bolded part make sense compared to what you say here?

[Griffionday]

Also, you're not taking into account the possibility that scum are messing with your poll.

Trust me, I am.  This wasn't meant as a RVS question.

Could you expand on your answer a bit?  Why do you consider it more valuable to secure the first day at the cost of expose yourself to more extreme scrutiny?

Dariush, NQT and Nerjin:  Please, in a sentence or two, let me know if you believe that you would lie low on the first mission if you were scum.  (Dariush, I'm pretty sure I know your answer already, but humor me please)

[zombie urist]

ZU: Your lurkertracker is broken. It did not track griffinpup's Last Vote. At all. Nor is it updated towards the current list of votes.

Fixed it. It was actually caused because one of the pages didn't cache correctly on my side.

[Lenglon]

Tiruin: thank you for finally answering why you upvoted GriffPup's team. I said hesitant because you answered only a peripheral part of the question the first time, and then delayed answering for several posts when I pointed out that the answer was incomplete.

regarding moodiness and suchlike, I honestly cannot answer that very well. Not only do I not fully understand it myself, but getting an emotional read like that always requires at least a partial re-read, often a full one, or at least it does for me. I would have to link almost every post you have made in this thread to even try. It's more a story or a conversation than a single action,  comment, or speech.
(random fact: I get my emotional reads when I'm tired, when my memories and impressions of people and statements blur into a single whole or story, and operate off of my memory of those emotional reads when I'm not. the inverse is true for logical reads or plans, which I make during the day, and operate off of my memory of those plans when I'm tired)

regarding why I found your vote sequence suspicious, I think I jumped ahead of myself in my explanation to you, and failed to present it properly. rather than present the reasons I found it suspicious, I presented the conclusion I was drawing from it. I'd like to apologize to you about that.

the key here was the vote on Griffpup's team. I went through each of the votes and looked for any oddball votes and suchlike, and you stood out pretty thoroughly. so I then went back and looked for why you voted how you did each time, and found that you were consistently cautious and had a tendency to vote down teams that seemed even moderately suspicious. but then you broke that pattern when you voted for a team comprised of half the previous, failed, team's members, and you did so with minimal discussion! the point that you had been complaining about consistently before every other team! this is why I worded my question to you the way I did. I didn't understand why you broke your pattern. Since I had trouble building a consistent personality of you from the assumption that you're a rebel, I decided to try to build one where you're a spy, and it was... really, surprisingly easy. although pre-supposing  that you're a rebel required me to stretch my understanding and acceptance of your personality and patterns, pre-supposing that you're a spy made writing the story of "why Tiruin did and said what she did and said" quite easy. I then proceeded to post that final story as my reasoning... which was a case of putting the cart before the horse. sorry about the confusion.

do I make more sense now?

Lastly, I notice something in many of your posts. I've nothing to take but your word on the matter of you and your alter-ego being rebels. Why do you keep on pushing the comparison of the presence of a role and not pushing what your previous self has laid instead?

because I'm unhappy with my alter ego too, and don't fully understand what Past Me was pushing. I came to the conclusion that I'm better off starting from scratch than bothering with it. The fact of the matter is, if I didn't have confirmation, I would doubt me too, and I don't know what I can say to fully explain Past Me's actions.

I see you did the reasoning on his..flailing back there, saying it was a town point (which I struggle to see, but not wholly disagree with), but what else can you say about him?

not much. Past Me was clearly worked up and spinning in place even before the mission started, and then completely self-destructed when the mission was sabotaged. I think if Past Me was a spy, Past Me would have laid low on that mission simply out of fear of being caught. That's... really about it, I think. and from my eyes, it's simply a rephrasing of what I said earlier on the subject.

You did not defend one thing.

I can, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't want to go on the mission for the single reason that I could end up being written off as scum. I really have nothing whatsoever I can say to defend myself now besides "I told you it would happen". By definition, if I can't do anything to disprove your claims, either everyone has been told by the mod that I'm a spy, or a nice batch of WIFOM is being served.

Answer me, how does the bolded part make sense compared to what you say here?

(edited in the link to the post you quoted, instead of a blank quote tag, for easy reference.)

what Past Me was saying there was that she fully understood why a sabotaged mission would make her look like a spy, and in fact was so aware and worried about it that she asked to not be on the team specifically to avoid it. basically, it was an admission of fear and despair.

(by the way, your comment to Past Me just three posts up from the link, where you announce that you are writing her off as a spy for delaying her defense (rather than for the evidence or a weakness in the defense itself), is pretty harsh, and seems unlike normal you. if you want an example of you acting unusual, lets work with that one for now. I still stand by my statement of it not being as simple as a single post though.)

[griffinpup]

You guys are silly 
NQT's post was AFTER the first mission.  In fact, the exact timing of that post is quite interesting.  It is after NQT suggested his team, comprising Nerjin, me, NQT, and Remuthra.  Other people then suggested to place Dariush on the team instead of Remuthra.  NQT decided that he would relent if pretty much everyone agreed, but he then felt the need to include a method for how multiple scum should act.  My theory is that NQT is a spy along with Dariush.  Dariush makes a "random" team to start with, with a scum on it.  NQT then suggests a team, but people want one change.  To switch Remuthra with Dariush.  Realizing that it'd be suspicious to not go with popular opinion, he offers to place Dariush on the team instead of Remuthra.  But one of the biggest problems that scumteam face this time around is not knowing which one of them are supposed to sabotage when on the same team.  So he inserts that instruction into his post.  Having two spies on a team is still not optimal, especially since Dariush might not of noticed the plan.  So when Dariush says some crap about unanimity, NQT jumps at the chance to remove him from the team.  And now Dariush is chainsawing me in hopes of saving NQT, or at least trying to throw doubt into the situation.  Dariush hardly even considered the possibility of NQT trying to communicate, and his case against me reeks of desperation.  The fact is that NQT listened to Dariush over Shinigami_King, Remuthra, and Nerjin.

So, NQT, do you think the scumteam is Shinigami_King, Remuthra, and Nerjin?  If so, why'd you put two of them on your team?

Griffinpup: It wasn't a threat. I just wanted to have the information to make my pick better. Why would you withhold information from the town?

Again, answering that question kinda defeats the purpose of withholding the information in the first place.  I have made a decision to present my case today or tomorrow, however, so you won't have to wait long.  Also, not telling you information isn't withholding it from the town.

Why the delay?

Because I didn't have time at that moment to do so.

Daruish:

-snip-
The pertinent part is bolded and made huge.

So, you think that scum NQT somehow made an attempt to stealthily tell his scummates the order of voting, which was noticed by scum but ignored by all townies. Somehow. Having no guarantee that this will happen exactly this way (two exact people noticing, five exact people not noticing). A much likelier possibility is that you are a spy openly telling your scumbuddies in large bold text which scheme to use.

No, I don't.  I think that NQT somehow made an attempt to tell his scummates the order of voting, which might of been noticed by scum and ignored by all but two townies.  But, just to be clear, I'm obviously scum because I'm attempting to communicate with my scumbuddies by QUOTING ANOTHER'S POST???  But this person was obviously not scum, even though they said the scummy thing in the first place, because when he said it it wasn't bolded, or in large text.  That's your argument, right?

You're accusing me of openly telling my scumbuddies "what scheme to use."  But, you don't see any possibility of NQT attempting the same thing?
Are you accusing Lenglon of being scum as well?  If not, why's it ok for him to raise suspicions about scum communicating but not me?

GriffPup: why did you vote up a team containing NQT and yourself when NQT was on the team that was sabotaged?

Because I made said team.  It would be counterproductive to downvote your own team.

[Lenglon]

-snip-

Why the delay?

Because I didn't have time at that moment to do so.

-snip-

What if I say I'm interested in knowing it?

I'd probably say bug off?  Purely hypothetically, of course.

GriffPup: if you were simply low on time, why the snark?

GriffPup: why did you vote up a team containing NQT and yourself when NQT was on the team that was sabotaged?

Because I made said team.  It would be counterproductive to downvote your own team.

GriffPup: how so? if the team was simply to reaction-test, then you wouldn't want it to pass anyway. if it wasn't, could you please explain why you picked the people you did for that team? despite it containing a member of the team that was sabotaged (other than yourself)?

[TheWetSheep]

Toon Mafia is starting to leak in here...


Griffinpup:

TheWetSheep:
Do you have any complaints about Dairiush's play AFTER DAY ONE?

Not really, apart from this:

Tiruin and TheWetSheep get moderate town points for downvoting the mission.

No they don't. If they're town, they didn't have any way to know there would be a spy on the team any more than the rest of us.

This is some of the stupidest logic I've seen. If we were spies, though, we would want the team passed, since it had at least one spy on it.

And the fact that he ignored it when I addressed it to him.

Tiruin:

How isn't he? I don't see how he could've missed the cheesy fact that 3 people are misinforming, while the rest are searching to be informed. Or 4..forgot how many spies were there. Have to check on that note later.

What? The people that responded aren't going to tell him that they're misinforming. How would he know they gave him an untrue answer.

Oh, and nice attempt at trying to look townie there. One of the most blatant attempts I've seen so far, scum.

Griffionday:

Also, you're not taking into account the possibility that scum are messing with your poll.

Could you expand on your answer a bit?  Why do you consider it more valuable to secure the first day at the cost of expose yourself to more extreme scrutiny?

1/4 of the players are scum. If you sabotage the first mission, it bumps your probability up to 1/3, only a 1/12 increase. It really doesn't give the town much information, but it does give you 1/3 of victory.


I want to wait until Dariush and NQT respond before I choose my team. Sorry it's taking so long.

[Tiruin]

PFP

Toon Mafia is starting to leak in here...

"Yes, yes it is."

"Are you going to stand there and gawk or are you picking right now, preferably with explanations why?"

Tiruin:

How isn't he? I don't see how he could've missed the cheesy fact that 3 people are misinforming, while the rest are searching to be informed. Or 4..forgot how many spies were there. Have to check on that note later.

What? The people that responded aren't going to tell him that they're misinforming. How would he know they gave him an untrue answer.

Oh, and nice attempt at trying to look townie there. One of the most blatant attempts I've seen so far, scum.

Aww how cute, a jump of aggression! ~<3

It's actually a nullcatch. How would you easily put something as numbers and label them as scummy, hmm?

Also, that was a general statement: Spies have a general rule to misinform, and they obviously know each other TWS. I thought that's plaintively obvious. What did you see in the first 2 sentences?

[Nerjin]

TheWetSheep

Tiruin:

I'm definitely not putting Remuthra on the team. Why do you think I would?

You never said a definitive on that.

2. Why would it implicate Dariush?

Because Remuthra tried to get Dariush onto the team instead of him.

Here we go again with the total evasion. Let's just give the idea without why it would implicate the person, shall we?

Where did he explicitly do this?

I already said why it would implicate Dariush. If Remuthra was a spy and he was trying to get Dariush onto the team instead of him, and there weren't spies on the team already, then it looks like Remuthra was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team.

What? Are you… Are you serious? Why would he be trying to get another spy onto the team with him? That’s a really HARD stretch you’re going to to try to implicate Dariush. The evidence isn’t doing it; YOU are.

Second: Looking less likely how?

The mission only had one fail, so it's unlikely that there were two spies on it unless they communicated, and I haven't seen any of that. Unless...

The ellipsis denotes intentional omission.

Why are you omitting things, or making them into a run-on?

The following questions after that aren't even adding to whatever speculation I can derive from that Unless... there.

I was melding it into my question to Griffinpup, which was about his theory of communication. I meant "unless Griffinpup is going to show us some communication".

That’s an odd thing to do. Why not just say “Unless GriffPup is gonna tell us his theory.”? It’s not really against or for your “town-ness” but I think it’s a good thing to bring up. As Tiruin has said several times this is a game of communication. You gotta be up-front about things.

Tiruin:

How isn't he? I don't see how he could've missed the cheesy fact that 3 people are misinforming, while the rest are searching to be informed. Or 4..forgot how many spies were there. Have to check on that note later.

What? The people that responded aren't going to tell him that they're misinforming. How would he know they gave him an untrue answer.

So… What’s your point? You’re obviously saying something about Tiruin but I can’t for the life of me figure it out. Are you saying she’s a spy because she brought up that YOU didn’t explain how GriffDay wasn’t taking into account that spies would try to mess with the poll. You seem awfully intent on implicating people with small evidence kiddo.
GriffDay

Everyone: If you were a spy would you have lain low D1?

Absolutely NOT! Laying low on the first mission is a pretty bad move. To my mind the perfect spy play would be to sabotage mission one. Even if Spy 1 gets called out then 2/3 are still free to go. M2: Sabotage. Then even if spy 2 is caught [miraculously] then Spy 3 WILL win the game. Why? Because the odds of them not being on M3-M5 are SO very low with only 8 players. I haven’t run any numbers but it seems to me that hitting out a win/win/lose/lose/win is easy enough.

Nerjin:

Lenglon and GriffDay: What are you reads on EVERYONE please be concise but as detailed as possible.

May I wait to see the results of my poll first?

You certainly may.

NQT talks about the biggest advantage the rebels have in this game.  The inability for the spy team to know which of it's members will sabotage a particular mission.  Realizing that solving this problem would help his team greatly, NQT attempted to communicate with his spymates about this very issue.  He sublty told his allies that the person that comes first in the alphabet is to sabotage.  In my opinion, such a blatantly obvious attempt to communicate makes is quite obvious that NQT is, in fact, a spy.  Upon careful deliberation, I could find no reason for the rebels to include such a detail in their posts.
Nerjin:
After such a blatant attempt of communication by NQT, you immediately reply this:

I don't think that's how it was but it's not really important.

It's not important?  You obviously read NQT's attempt of communication, you even caught the lie in it, but you immediately dismiss it as not important and don't even question the possibility of him attempting to communicate.  Why?

It didn’t seem to me like he was communicating. He’d have to be a complete tool to out himself that obviously. I really do think he was just talking about the last game and got the facts messed up. Though your idea does have merit. I’ll have to watch him more closely in the future.

GriffPup: in the most recent BM there was a very long discussion of the logical falicies inherent in a "one of these two is scum but not both" argument.

Well...  This is in no way vanilla or standard mafia.  Here it is logical to have a one or the other argument.  Let's say you're on mission one, a rebel, and there's a sabotage attempt.  One of the other people have to be a spy, correct?  In this situation it would be acceptable to take a "one of these two is scum" approach.

I disagree. To everyone else that’s basically saying “I’m not scum. They are!” so it seems a little weak to rely on that argument. I’m not saying that you’re wrong to think it has SOME merit. It’s just that its merit lies in the background. “These people I was with must be scum. At least one.” So then you build a case on them from that point.

My point: “If I’m not spy then B/C must be!” is a valid way to pick a target but should not be used as part of your argument against them.
GriffPup

[[Big Story about Why NQT trying to put Dariush on his team implicates BOTH of them.]]

You guys all seem to be after Dariush don’t you? Yet I don’t think I’ve seen anyone present meaningful evidence against HIM. It always seems to be other people that lead you to the conclusion that he’s evil. Pretty weak case for that reason. NOW onto NQT:

Once again I don’t think that NQT was putting up instructions to his scum-buddies or even that he is scum. He might not be, I’ll admit, but I don’t see it yet. NOW everything you typed out there could also be explained as: He’s absolutely clueless and is flailing and relying on the intuition of other better players who seem to have a better idea than he does. Just as likely to my mind.

Griffinpup: It wasn't a threat. I just wanted to have the information to make my pick better. Why would you withhold information from the town?

Again, answering that question kinda defeats the purpose of withholding the information in the first place.  I have made a decision to present my case today or tomorrow, however, so you won't have to wait long.  Also, not telling you information isn't withholding it from the town.

Why the delay?

Because I didn't have time at that moment to do so.

Again: Why with-hold it at all? What exactly did you gain by waiting on the information? All it gained, to my thinking, is a bit of suspicion. You seemed awfully keen to make yourself look like a big hero. I’ll give you this though: You certainly have a sense for flair.
Dariush

-snip-
The pertinent part is bolded and made huge.

So, you think that scum NQT somehow made an attempt to stealthily tell his scummates the order of voting, which was noticed by scum but ignored by all townies. Somehow. Having no guarantee that this will happen exactly this way (two exact people noticing, five exact people not noticing). A much likelier possibility is that you are a spy openly telling your scumbuddies in large bold text which scheme to use.

I don’t know that doesn’t seem likely either. You’d have to be an ABSOLUTE moron to be that obvious. I’m pretty sure that Griffpup is just sharing his idea. Though I’ll admit it’s a pretty unlikely one. I suppose I’ll have to keep an eye out on that.

[griffinpup]

-snip-

Why the delay?

Because I didn't have time at that moment to do so.

-snip-

What if I say I'm interested in knowing it?

I'd probably say bug off?  Purely hypothetically, of course.

GriffPup: if you were simply low on time, why the snark?

That was a completely different time, when I hadn't decided when of if I'd point out NQT's attempt to communicate.

GriffPup: why did you vote up a team containing NQT and yourself when NQT was on the team that was sabotaged?

Because I made said team.  It would be counterproductive to downvote your own team.

GriffPup: how so? if the team was simply to reaction-test, then you wouldn't want it to pass anyway. if it wasn't, could you please explain why you picked the people you did for that team? despite it containing a member of the team that was sabotaged (other than yourself)?

I'll answer the second question first.  There were three other people on the team that failed.  There was only one sabotage attempt.  That implies that there's one scum out of those three.  That means that there's two scum in the remaining four.  I literally couldn't of made a team without scum on it if i DIDN'T include someone from a failed mission.
Also, the team being a reaction test doesn't mean that my individual reads on every member weren't true.  Obviously my read on NQT has changed, but the others haven't changed dramatically.  Passing that team wasn't the primary goal.  That doesn't mean it wasn't A goal.

PPE:  Nerjin
I'll get to you in a bit?

[Lenglon]

-snip-
That was a completely different time, when I hadn't decided when of if I'd point out NQT's attempt to communicate.

GriffPup:Nope! The snark was 30 minutes after when you said you would talk about it in a day or two.
please, re-answer the question. i suggest making it a better one this time.

[griffinpup]

NQT talks about the biggest advantage the rebels have in this game.  The inability for the spy team to know which of it's members will sabotage a particular mission.  Realizing that solving this problem would help his team greatly, NQT attempted to communicate with his spymates about this very issue.  He sublty told his allies that the person that comes first in the alphabet is to sabotage.  In my opinion, such a blatantly obvious attempt to communicate makes is quite obvious that NQT is, in fact, a spy.  Upon careful deliberation, I could find no reason for the rebels to include such a detail in their posts.
Nerjin:
After such a blatant attempt of communication by NQT, you immediately reply this:

I don't think that's how it was but it's not really important.

It's not important?  You obviously read NQT's attempt of communication, you even caught the lie in it, but you immediately dismiss it as not important and don't even question the possibility of him attempting to communicate.  Why?

It didn’t seem to me like he was communicating. He’d have to be a complete tool to out himself that obviously. I really do think he was just talking about the last game and got the facts messed up. Though your idea does have merit. I’ll have to watch him more closely in the future.

Why would he start talking about the last game in the first place, though?  I really need to see his response so I can bludgeon him to death. hear his explanation.

[[Big Story about Why NQT trying to put Dariush on his team implicates BOTH of them.]]

You guys all seem to be after Dariush don’t you? Yet I don’t think I’ve seen anyone present meaningful evidence against HIM. It always seems to be other people that lead you to the conclusion that he’s evil. Pretty weak case for that reason. NOW onto NQT:

Once again I don’t think that NQT was putting up instructions to his scum-buddies or even that he is scum. He might not be, I’ll admit, but I don’t see it yet. NOW everything you typed out there could also be explained as: He’s absolutely clueless and is flailing and relying on the intuition of other better players who seem to have a better idea than he does. Just as likely to my mind.

It's a big story about NQT trying to keep Dariush OFF his team, actually.  Regardless, look at it as if NQT was somehow confirmed scum.  Wouldn't the placement of his "communication"  implicate Dariush pretty heavily?

Griffinpup: It wasn't a threat. I just wanted to have the information to make my pick better. Why would you withhold information from the town?

Again, answering that question kinda defeats the purpose of withholding the information in the first place.  I have made a decision to present my case today or tomorrow, however, so you won't have to wait long.  Also, not telling you information isn't withholding it from the town.

Why the delay?

Because I didn't have time at that moment to do so.

Again: Why with-hold it at all? What exactly did you gain by waiting on the information? All it gained, to my thinking, is a bit of suspicion. You seemed awfully keen to make yourself look like a big hero. I’ll give you this though: You certainly have a sense for flair.

Two things really.  I was afraid of both of the extreme reactions.  For everyone to immediately agree with me and paint NQT as insta-scum, and for them to freak out like Daruish and paint me as insta-scum.  The fact is that any rebel cannot afford to be seen as scum by everyone.  It makes the fifth mission impossible to win, and the third and fourth missions as hard as the fifth.  Also, I see complete agreement to my case a sign of stupidity and/or scumminess.  I wouldn't want town to bus and innocent purely because I found evidence of communication.  I had to balance these two fears and how strong my read on NQT was before I could post my case.

[griffinpup]

-snip-
That was a completely different time, when I hadn't decided when of if I'd point out NQT's attempt to communicate.

GriffPup:Nope! The snark was 30 minutes after when you said you would talk about it in a day or two.
please, re-answer the question. i suggest making it a better one this time.

Good point.  I guess it's because snarkiness is fun 
I'm serious, by the way.  I play this game to have fun, and mocking people is fun.  Notice the Daruish in all my posts. 

[TheWetSheep]

Nerjin:

TheWetSheep

Tiruin:

I'm definitely not putting Remuthra on the team. Why do you think I would?

You never said a definitive on that.

2. Why would it implicate Dariush?

Because Remuthra tried to get Dariush onto the team instead of him.

Here we go again with the total evasion. Let's just give the idea without why it would implicate the person, shall we?

Where did he explicitly do this?

I already said why it would implicate Dariush. If Remuthra was a spy and he was trying to get Dariush onto the team instead of him, and there weren't spies on the team already, then it looks like Remuthra was trying to get a more experienced scum onto the team.

What? Are you… Are you serious? Why would he be trying to get another spy onto the team with him? That’s a really HARD stretch you’re going to to try to implicate Dariush. The evidence isn’t doing it; YOU are.

What? Who said with him? I said instead of him.

That’s an odd thing to do. Why not just say “Unless GriffPup is gonna tell us his theory.”? It’s not really against or for your “town-ness” but I think it’s a good thing to bring up. As Tiruin has said several times this is a game of communication. You gotta be up-front about things.

OK.

Tiruin:

How isn't he? I don't see how he could've missed the cheesy fact that 3 people are misinforming, while the rest are searching to be informed. Or 4..forgot how many spies were there. Have to check on that note later.

What? The people that responded aren't going to tell him that they're misinforming. How would he know they gave him an untrue answer.

So… What’s your point? You’re obviously saying something about Tiruin but I can’t for the life of me figure it out. Are you saying she’s a spy because she brought up that YOU didn’t explain how GriffDay wasn’t taking into account that spies would try to mess with the poll. You seem awfully intent on implicating people with small evidence kiddo.

The bolded part is what I'm talking about when I say she's trying too hard to appear townie.