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[DWC]

Actually, Indonesia is generally very Pro-US. At least as much as most of Europe. They were particular fans of Obama for obvious reasons. Yeah, they still have their problems (lots of corruption, quite a bit of sectarian strife), but we've had Americans in the ranks of the fundamentalists in Iraq and Syria too, it's good to remember.

Yeah, true enough. I made it sound worse then I meant to. Indonesia has something like 300 million people so it's not really easy to generalize, I'm sure you could find all sorts there. The sort of Islam traditionally practiced there is moderate and the government is nominally secular, however they allow one of their provinces (Aceh) to be run as a little theocratic fiefdom under Sharia Law and the majority of Indonesians apparently wish the whole country was like that. So, it does kind of remind me of Pakistan.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/seventy-two-percent-of-indonesians-favor-shariah-law-pew-forum/

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Fair enough. Lets use Mohamed in particular, then, instead of Islam in general. Same question.

Mohamed is a man who tells his followers, through the Koran, to go out and murder those people who do not follow him. He also teaches some nice things about giving to the poor and stuff. He's still a horrible person. And he should still bear some responsibility if one of his followers obeys his order to murder his neighbor.

So you see, the so-called association fallacy doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. Because Islam is based on the teaches of a man, and those teaches are contained in a book, and people do read that book and follow what the man said, and they do go out and murder their neighbors, because Islam told them to.

[Max White]

So you see, the so-called association fallacy doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. Because Islam is based on the teaches of a man, and those teaches are contained in a book, and people do read that book and follow what the man said, and they do go out and murder their neighbors, because Islam told them to.

You do realize I can draw the same conclusion about the bible, right?

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Very true. Which is exactly what I was saying. All religions teach some evil and some good. But I think that this particular evil which Islam teaches is worse than the evil taught by any other major religion.

[Max White]

"I think Islam is worse, therefor get rid of them"
So apparently the problem literally comes down to the fact that you don't like Islam. Ok, well there is not much I can do to help the irrational.

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

"I think Islam is worse, therefor get rid of them"
So apparently the problem literally comes down to the fact that you don't like Islam. Ok, well there is not much I can do to help the irrational.

I think not liking a theology that teaches people to kill me is a perfectly rational thing. If you like that, then that would be irrational!

[Max White]

So it is perfectly rational for me to hate Christianity?

[Eagle_eye]

Well, certain divisions of it, sure. I don't think most mainstream Christians are very big on holy war anymore though.

[Max White]

So what you are saying is I shouldn't judge a large collective of people based on the views of their more extremist members? Hmm....

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Logic that Christians and  Muslims both have nasty parts in the books, and did nasty stuff historically, thus should be treated equally is looking like that:

Both Americans and Germans used concentration camps back in WW2, (Americans on Japanese, Germans on Jews and others) Both USA and Nazi Germany were racist countries. So to say that USA 1941 had better  political system than Germany 1941 is a discrimination against Nazism. _
If you don't like Nazism more that's because you are an intolerant irrational person not because Nazism has something wrong inside

Logic that all religions has extremists (without analyzing quantity of them), can be developed to something like:

Government A has 30% of officials that take bribes, Government B has 5% of officials that take bribes, Government C has 0.5% of officials that take bribes You can't call government A awfully corrupted because majority of officials don't take bribes and Governments B and C have corrupted individuals, too
If you say that Government A is corrupt as hell, that is irrational prejudice

[Max White]

Except the difference is that the Nazi party was pretty well corrupt to the core, while the US, despite the way it treated prisoners of war, still had other good qualities.
You are only looking at the worst of Islam to condemn all Muslims, and excusing Christians because of less violent sects. When the Quran promotes violence it is enough to condemn, but when the Bible does the same it is irrelevant. You have an unfair double standard.

[FearfulJesuit]

...dat typo.

[Max White]

I need to turn off autocorrect some time.
Small typing errors become somewhat interesting.

[misko27]

...dat typo.

Makes the discussion all worth it. That's life you know? You live for the violence-on-condom promoting Qurans.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Democratic party\Nazy party
Ruled during WW2\Ruled during WW2
Used concentration camps\Used concentration camps
Bombed civilian targets\Bombed civilian targets
Allied with Communists\Allied with Communists

So, by your logic,Max White either both should be banned, or Nazi party should be unbanned

When the Quran promotes violence it is enough to condemn, but when the Bible does the same it is irrelevant.

Again the very same logic, both promote violence, who cares to what extent?
The facts are
1) Bible has far, far less violence promoting, especially in the parts of the Bible that are considered more important by majority of Christians
2) Also, Bible promotes mercy and forgiveness much more often than Islam(Yep, Christianity contradicts itself in many places, while Islam has quite few contradiction and much easier to interpret. )
3) Somehow there are far less Christians that interpret Bible in violent way than Muslims that interpret Koran in violent way

Question to you, Max White
Are Saudi Arabian and Iranian governments violent sects?