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[Frumple]

Except not. Suicide is expressly forbidden by the Quran. That includes suicide bombings, yes. There's also more than a couple passages in the Quran that pretty explicitly forbid acts such as indiscriminate bombings (re: stuff like killing the innocent), if for no other reason than being unable to be sure such things harm only those deserving of harm. Put pretty simply, no, such people are not "Proper Muslims" and no, that sort of violence is not acceptable according to the scripture in question.

Islam's definitely more accepting of violence than Christianity (at least in regards to scripture), but it's violence within a very specific context. Context which things like the Bali bombings are pretty specifically outside of.

[10ebbor10]

Except not. Suicide is expressly forbidden by the Quran. That includes suicide bombings, yes. There's also more than a couple passages in the Quran that pretty explicitly forbid acts such as indiscriminate bombings (re: stuff like killing the innocent), if for no other reason than being unable to be sure such things harm only those deserving of harm. Put pretty simply, no, such people are not "Proper Muslims" and no, that sort of violence is not acceptable according to the scripture in question.

Islam's definitely more accepting of violence than Christianity (at least in regards to scripture), but it's violence within a very specific context. Context which things like the Bali bombings are pretty specifically outside of.

Yup,  Judaism, Christianity, and the Islam are all 3 religions of the script. They show similarities in morals and the like, and none of them promotes terrorism.

Besides, saying that something is "right" according to Religion X is hard. There's no right interpretation.

On a side note, Jesuits are fairly progressive
The vatican is not, however

This even though a new Quinnipiac poll released last week showed that American Catholics support same-sex marriage by even a greater percentage (fifty-four per cent) than average Americans (forty-seven per cent).

So not that progressive. Also, WTH happened with America? Did fundies proclaim filling survey's in heretical or something? ((In fact, yes they did, as the fundamentalists are considered a separate branch of Christianity.))

Edit: *well some Christians disagree

You can safely say that (a close) majority disagrees actually.

[misko27]

This even though a new Quinnipiac poll released last week showed that American Catholics support same-sex marriage by even a greater percentage (fifty-four per cent) than average Americans (forty-seven per cent).

So not that progressive. Also, WTH happened with America? Did fundies proclaim filling survey's in heretical or something?

I'd look for more surveys then one, most for example say a majority of Americans support Gay marriage, so I'd find that suspect unless I so more polls.

[10ebbor10]

Me too. Looked up some more things.

Link
Link

Couldn't find any non American polls. ((Note: This is 2 times the same poll. Also a poll done by a catholical Christian organisation))

The percentage is slightly different when the respondent indicates he or she knows someone with same-sex attraction, with 49 percent indicating it is not sinful. Among those who have a religious affiliation, 55 percent of Catholics and 31 percent of Protestants said they do not believe homosexual behavior is sinful. That number dropped to 17 percent among born-again, evangelical or fundamentalist Protestants.

Holding opposing views, 39 percent of Catholics, 61 percent of Protestants and 79 percent of born-again, evangelical or fundamentalist Protestants said they do believe homosexual behavior is sinful.

[Sheb]

Okay, I'm out, calls me hen the debate is back on multiculturalism and not on how exactly is Islam and/or Christianity terrible. (Yes, I know, I'm guilty of pushing the thread in that direction).

[Loud Whispers]

Well thanks for not burning the thread down while I was gone guys, but it appears the thread's tracks are now on the moon.

Okay, I'm out, calls me hen the debate is back on multiculturalism and not on how exactly is Islam and/or Christianity terrible. (Yes, I know, I'm guilty of pushing the thread in that direction).

Word of sheb seems a bit relevant here.

[Dutchling]

PTW in case stuff gets interesting again.

[misko27]

I'm out for nows too. I've already refrained from posting once, and I guess I'ma keep doing it.

Well thanks for not burning the thread down while I was gone guys, but it appears the thread's tracks are now on the moon.

It was running the great wall of China for a while, but after Someone linked the actual Holy books it started going into orbit. At this rate it's escape the Earth's gravity entirely.

[casserol]

Ukrainian ranger, re your interesting comments on the clichés, I think what you don't realize is that they'd obviously include you as well. Think coming to france personnaly, and not getting a job or being set upon by skinheads or shot at by your neighbor when you come home late at night drunk and fumble with your door because you are a thief/drug dealer/skinhead(wut???) in their head. Yourself personally, because you belong to cliché'd group.

[LordSlowpoke]

If your neighbor is shooting at you in France, he's either a thug, drug dealer, etc. because over there gun controls are different from the US (which I assume were used as a baseline). That, or a hunter/woodsman/police officer, but to be honest, these kinda guys look twice before firing~

And yes, this is absolutely unrelated.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well thanks for not burning the thread down while I was gone guys, but it appears the thread's tracks are now on the moon.

It was running the great wall of China for a while, but after Someone linked the actual Holy books it started going into orbit. At this rate it's escape the Earth's gravity entirely.

You cannot escape Earth's gravity, or anything else's gravity. All matter is gravitationally affected by all other matter, regardless of distance, though eventually the pull becomes infinitesimal compared to closer objects.

[Sheb]

Of course you can, if you reach escape velocity, Earth gravity will never be able to stop you and bring you back. sure, you can still feel it, but it'll never catch up with you.

[casserol]

If your neighbor is shooting at you in France, he's either a thug, drug dealer, etc. because over there gun controls are different from the US (which I assume were used as a baseline). That, or a hunter/woodsman/police officer, but to be honest, these kinda guys look twice before firing~

And yes, this is absolutely unrelated.

nope, the baseline used was gun control in france :p

we do have good gun control laws, but we also have a very important hunting culture (especially in the coutryside, obviously) . and to stay in cliché land the hunter looking at you twice may precisely be the reason why he decided to shoot

[Ukrainian Ranger]

casserol. You bring very interesting topic here
1) I very well know that this clichés are directed to me as well. That's what's being a part of something means. You can't be like "I am member of X nation and hold no responsibility for it's reputation because any person is an individual"  If someone dislikes that he should claim to be "citizen of the world" or other stuff like that
2) I very well respect decision of business owners to hire people based on whatever beliefs they have. That's their sacred right. And, after all if they'll don't hire me, then they are hurting themselves first losing a nice worker
3) Skinheads is a very different issue, while it's their right to think whatever they think about some group, taking violent action against  any individual is a crime... It's like thinking that your  neighbor is a bastard (maybe right, maybe wrong) is perfectly fine, but taking actions against him is not

BTW, That's quite important part of my beliefs. Freedom of thought is one of the most basic human rights
Like:

It's a right of any person to think that woman are inferior to man, but saying that husband should beat his wife to submission is an encouragement for crime. Encouragement for a crime is a crime itself

Also, I am very against any hiring regulations for private businesses.  Let's say some male chauvinistic company decides to not hire women at all... In most countries he will get sued for discrimination and I have a strong opinion that it is absolutely wrong and against human rights. Not hiring a person is not a crime!
Also, no need for state-based justice here... That owner is hurting himself by not a) hiring qualified personnel, b) hurting his reputation (that will lead to less customers\contracts\even strikes)

Government institutions is another thing, of cause, as hirings here regulated by the Law, and Law should be equal for everyone

Change gender to religion, ethnics, race, sexual orientation, penis length... Same stuff

[GlyphGryph]

Since it IS a crime in some countries, did you mean to make another more sensible statement, like "It shouldn't be a crime because"?

Because people disagree about what's wrong or right, and people disagree about whether or not something is wrong ENOUGH to be a crime, but the actuality of whether something is against the law or not is a simple fact.

Also, are you saying the population of a country shouldn't have any legal recourse for modifying their own country to be a superior culture?