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[VerdantSF]

Does that include accidents?  my [INVADERS:NO] fort is only 7-8 years old and i've still had like 3 dozen deaths.  Although I did have invaders on for a few seasons by accident and a few ambushes that I wasn't too worried about took a few lives.

Legends only counts war casualties in the Civ/Group summary as far as I can tell.  Accidents bump the number up quite a bit for me.  I'm still miffed that my inattention led to the death of 3 miners from thirst .

[VerdantSF]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but... am I the only one thinking this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ha ha ha! Behold Edem II, Goblinite Miner!

YES!!!

[anzelm]

Did anyone check if there is any link between local children growing/not growing and family ties?

[Mr S]

Something like:

Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.

Litast McHungryGrowth, Baby, has been malnourished lately.

...(1 year later)

Litast McHungryGrowth, Child, has grown up scrawny!

Funny!!  But not supported by the currently SCIENCE.

[Raphite1]

Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.

This is the first time in my life that I've been confused about whether someone was talking about a liver or about a boob.  >=]

[Callista]

Something like:

Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.

Litast McHungryGrowth, Baby, has been malnourished lately.

...(1 year later)

Litast McHungryGrowth, Child, has grown up scrawny!

Funny!!  But not supported by the currently SCIENCE.

Losing only one wouldn't hurt the baby. Well, it doesn't in humans. Though usually the fight we lose 'em in isn't anything near as fun as a goblin raid. 

But real-life science aside, I think you got a point there. Dwarf moms feed their babies and carry them around 24/7. If the dwarf mom went hungry for any appreciable time, the baby should be malnourished too, and grow up smaller. I think that would be a nice feature to add--a good reason to keep your dwarves properly fed and boozed, if you want the kids to pull their weight. And a way to control the size of the next generation. A well-fed fort should turn out big, strong dwarves; one living on the edge of starvation should have a bunch of scrawny ones.

[CognitiveDissonance]

But real-life science aside, I think you got a point there. Dwarf moms feed their babies and carry them around 24/7. If the dwarf mom went hungry for any appreciable time, the baby should be malnourished too, and grow up smaller. I think that would be a nice feature to add--a good reason to keep your dwarves properly fed and boozed, if you want the kids to pull their weight. And a way to control the size of the next generation. A well-fed fort should turn out big, strong dwarves; one living on the edge of starvation should have a bunch of scrawny ones.

UristMcMother was forced to hunt vermin to survive recently.
UristMcMother has lost a child recently.

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.

This is the first time in my life that I've been confused about whether someone was talking about a liver or about a boob.  >=]

Since dwarven babies "need alcohol to get through a working day," it's only natural that female dwarves produce alcohol rather than milk.

[Kurik Amudnil]

I have finally posted version 1 of Unit Info Viewer which among other things, displays some body size infomation.  Due to the issues with body sizes, I report 3 values.  The pressure plate trigger size, which appears to be influenced by strength. Followed by the size for butcher product results (not blood_max, but blood_max equals this value, absent manual edits).  And lastly a rough estimate of what the body size should be if the creature in question was growing every day according to the scale defined in the raws, but using the units-of-volumn used in game.

In my tests with blue peafowl, I have noticed that some hatch to an adult peafowl size which makes me wonder how large they would get to be if they grew with age or if there is another intermittent bug in calculating an initial size for newborns or if there is an attribute that seriously inflates the creature size.  Probably the latter since I haven't noticed adult sizes on larger creature newborns

I am curious how Edem II would perform with a hammer when either of the two sizes are manually updated vs the two contact areas, vs the two length/heights.  I don't have time for it right now but if anyone wants to do some tests, this is what I believe to the current understanding of the fields:

Code: [Select]

unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[0] -- Strength influenced size, trigger for pressure plates
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[1] -- normal body size, Butcher product result size, blood_max equals this unless either is modified manually
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[2] -- appears to be strength influenced contact area
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[3] -- appears to be contact area related to normal body size
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[4] -- appears to be strength influenced length or height
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[5] -- appears to be a length or height related to normal body size
(yes we know that the enum names for physical_attr_tissues need to be updated)

[VerdantSF]

Niiiiice!  Thanks, Kurik!

[Man of Paper]

Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.

This is the first time in my life that I've been confused about whether someone was talking about a liver or about a boob.  >=]

Since dwarven babies "need alcohol to get through a working day," it's only natural that female dwarves produce alcohol rather than milk.

I think they call them "brewbs".

[Urist Da Vinci]

I have finally posted version 1 of Unit Info Viewer which among other things, displays some body size infomation.  Due to the issues with body sizes, I report 3 values.  The pressure plate trigger size, which appears to be influenced by strength. Followed by the size for butcher product results (not blood_max, but blood_max equals this value, absent manual edits).  And lastly a rough estimate of what the body size should be if the creature in question was growing every day according to the scale defined in the raws, but using the units-of-volumn used in game.

In my tests with blue peafowl, I have noticed that some hatch to an adult peafowl size which makes me wonder how large they would get to be if they grew with age or if there is another intermittent bug in calculating an initial size for newborns or if there is an attribute that seriously inflates the creature size.  Probably the latter since I haven't noticed adult sizes on larger creature newborns

I am curious how Edem II would perform with a hammer when either of the two sizes are manually updated vs the two contact areas, vs the two length/heights.  I don't have time for it right now but if anyone wants to do some tests, this is what I believe to the current understanding of the fields:

Code: [Select]

unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[0] -- Strength influenced size, trigger for pressure plates
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[1] -- normal body size, Butcher product result size, blood_max equals this unless either is modified manually
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[2] -- appears to be strength influenced contact area
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[3] -- appears to be contact area related to normal body size
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[4] -- appears to be strength influenced length or height
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[5] -- appears to be a length or height related to normal body size
(yes we know that the enum names for physical_attr_tissues need to be updated)

Updating the sizes "fixes" the dwarf as far as combat calcs go. I didn't see any changes from altering the contact area or length/height data. Please note that

• , [2] and [4] are influenced by both strength and fat due to [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] and [THICKENS_ON_ENERGY_STORAGE]. I don't know if there are any long-term implications of this "fix".

The unknown flag that I noticed 2 pages ago in this thread? It resists being changed, and switches back immediately. It is a different flag from the known flags for historical figures. Maybe it only enables on dwarves over 100 years old because of some "age-100" bug in the code?

The best solution to this problem would be if someone with knowledge of creating binary patches (i.e. Quietust) would track down the code that causes this mess. I don't know how to do that.

[hostergaard]

This is so awesome! Its why I love this game, the emergent behavior and amusing bugs!

This probably means that fortress born grazers requires much smaller pastures, but how does it affect milk and wool production? Is miniature llama and sheep farming a viable industry?

Now I can actually get my elephant breeding program in full swing, just need to have a pair on site and I can have miniature elephants!

How does it affects dragons tough? They keep growing for a long time...

[crossmr]

I don't really know how you dump this kind of stuff..
but have you tried doing a full dump of a migrant kid and a full dump of a fortress born kid every year for 2 or 3 years to compare flags/values/etc to see if you can find the odd one out?

Does the migrant kid keep growing after his migrant tag wears off? (how long does that take?)
If you'd let me know how you're dumping this info, and if it's the full amount, I don't mind doing some number comparing.

[fricy]

This probably means that fortress born grazers requires much smaller pastures, but how does it affect milk and wool production? Is miniature llama and sheep farming a viable industry?
Now I can actually get my elephant breeding program in full swing, just need to have a pair on site and I can have miniature elephants!
How does it affects dragons tough? They keep growing for a long time...

This bug only affects creatures born in the fortress, so Dragons should be immune. (they don't have a child tag, so they don't breed in forts...)

About the grazers: I couldn't find any information about difference in grazer value between adults and childs, but even if there is a difference, I doubt this bug will have any influence:
Assumption no1: The game treats the tiny animals as adults (they can breed!), so I'd assume it uses the grazer value of adults. Only their body size is affected.
Assumption no2: We would have noticed elephants not starving if the bug affected their food needs.
-but exact science is needed, I don't have any concrete evidence-

Following the same logic: milking and shearing should return normal (adult) quantities.