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[Zangi]

I find its much easier to avoid those stealth jobs, unless I bring in my dodge/suit build or my vest build if they'd allow me to wear that...  But then they'd still want to restart it anyways after a screw up.

/Pub

[Teneb]

If you're looking to speed up your levelling, I found that the Overkill/Deathwish stealth jobs with people who know what they're doing (which, if they are playing those, they usually are) are simply unbeatable. Not only is the risk bonus around 13 times bigger than the actual mission XP you get, you get +5% XP for the next mission, and a successful stealth job is relatively far more simple than a successful loud one. Although I *still* cannot try to get into the Go Bank vault without tripping the damn motion sensors.

Also: AK 7.62 with a Bigger is Better silencer and Ghost bonuses to silenced weapons is pretty damn ridiculous - you get an assault rifle that can 1HK FBI Maximum Force responders if it doesn't bounce off the armor, it has fifty-something damage with all the range of an AR.

As mentioned, unless you got a team it's better to avoid stealth missions if you are pubbing. Hoxton Breakout on overkill still nets me 3 levels at 90+. Not only people restart over everything in stealth, you can get kicked instantly for a minor screwup. I remember a game where the host's friend screwed up over 10 times, but was never kicked. I screw up once? Goodbye.

Also: Bronco revolver is the best sidearm, from what I've seen. Rarely bounces off the armour, and often 1HK as wells.

[scrdest]

If you're looking to speed up your levelling, I found that the Overkill/Deathwish stealth jobs with people who know what they're doing (which, if they are playing those, they usually are) are simply unbeatable. Not only is the risk bonus around 13 times bigger than the actual mission XP you get, you get +5% XP for the next mission, and a successful stealth job is relatively far more simple than a successful loud one. Although I *still* cannot try to get into the Go Bank vault without tripping the damn motion sensors.

Also: AK 7.62 with a Bigger is Better silencer and Ghost bonuses to silenced weapons is pretty damn ridiculous - you get an assault rifle that can 1HK FBI Maximum Force responders if it doesn't bounce off the armor, it has fifty-something damage with all the range of an AR.

As mentioned, unless you got a team it's better to avoid stealth missions if you are pubbing. Hoxton Breakout on overkill still nets me 3 levels at 90+. Not only people restart over everything in stealth, you can get kicked instantly for a minor screwup. I remember a game where the host's friend screwed up over 10 times, but was never kicked. I screw up once? Goodbye.

Also: Bronco revolver is the best sidearm, from what I've seen. Rarely bounces off the armour, and often 1HK as wells.

Eh. It depends heavily on the team you bump into. Yeah, people will restart, but that's because an all-suit team screwing up on a Deathwish is... well, pretty much a deathwish. Same goes for a minor screwup - if it triggers an alarm, you've just ggnored the mission most of the time. My run-ins with high-risk stealthers have been mostly for the better than for the worse.

[beorn080]

AFAIK, unless they've tweaked the xp, the two best runs for xp to time are hoxton breakout on overkill and go bank on deathwish. For breakout, an enforcer/tech build for maximum armor makes it almost criminally easy, and go bank, well, that's just a stealth run. As for the lasers, only send the person with the saw into the vault. If that's you, crouch, and wait for the bottom three to not be there. If you don't have a saw, just don't bother running go bank. It's not like the other bank runs where once you have the map locked down, you can't fail.

[KingofstarrySkies]

I've ballsed up Jewelry store on Deathwish, in suits. We still made it.

[BurnedToast]

If you're looking to speed up your levelling, I found that the Overkill/Deathwish stealth jobs with people who know what they're doing (which, if they are playing those, they usually are) are simply unbeatable. Not only is the risk bonus around 13 times bigger than the actual mission XP you get, you get +5% XP for the next mission, and a successful stealth job is relatively far more simple than a successful loud one. Although I *still* cannot try to get into the Go Bank vault without tripping the damn motion sensors.

Also: AK 7.62 with a Bigger is Better silencer and Ghost bonuses to silenced weapons is pretty damn ridiculous - you get an assault rifle that can 1HK FBI Maximum Force responders if it doesn't bounce off the armor, it has fifty-something damage with all the range of an AR.

ECM rushing DW stealth maps has always (well, since the exp rebalance) been one of the best EXP earners. 4 people with maxed out ECMs can finish almost all the stealth maps in the ~5 minutes of free "stealth" you get (including FF D3 though it's very tight). Actually stealthing the "correct" way is usually terrible exp because of how finicky guard pathing is and the horrible desync issues which make teammates set off the alarm even though it's not their fault. Running overkill hox breakout/HLM is usually much faster if you don't have a dedicated ECM rush team.

Now that everyone gets the headshot perk, 50 damage is not a breakpoint - you're effectively doing the same damage as someone who's got a 40 damage gun. Max. force responders (tans/browns) need 80 damage to kill in a single headshot, not 50. For this reason, the AK, eagle heavy, falcon, and probably other guns are just utterly garbage worthless tier since you're doing the same effective damage but have ~half the ammo pool (and lower ammo pool = lower pickups so it's even worse). Makes me sad because I absolutely love the eagle heavy but I can't justify bringing half the ammo (and a smaller mag) for absolutely no upside.

Ghost silencer skills are garbage tier. There's no reason to ever get them, they are a total waste of points. The only situation they are ever useful is silenced LMGs (which is a stupid concept) and even then it's not worth the huge point investment. I really hate to say this, because I hate the idea of telling people what to pick and what not to pick for a co-op game but they are really, really bad.

Also: Bronco revolver is the best sidearm, from what I've seen. Rarely bounces off the armour, and often 1HK as wells.

Bronco is ok because it can make 80 damage to 1-shot tans and still has... decentish concealment (I hate not having a laser sight though). However, tan armor does not work that way. If you don't have any armor pen talents it will block 100% of shots from all guns, armor penetration (and snipers) are the only thing that can defeat it, and the penetrate chance is the same for all guns.

Edit: 80 damage with perk, not 100 to 1-hit kill tans.

[KingofstarrySkies]

HoxHud has been, once again, disabled. My tears are rampant. 

[sjm9876]

Also, mingiuns 0_o

So damn sweet. Ammo bags are essential though.

[scrdest]

@BurnedToast

First off, find me a 40-dam when silenced assault rifle (that is not DLC, at least, I can't speak for DLC content). Dealing the same damage as that is pretty damn good by me

7.62 has, IIRC, 30 less ammo, so a full mag less, than the AMCAR, at 30-90 when full. Meanwhile, it is powerful enough to be effective fired single-shot, and speaking of which, powerful enough at my setup to have a bodyshot 1HK on a blue SWAT, whereas AMCAR would require more spraying and thus more ammo per kill. All with a silencer and decent concealability.

Within the constraints of the DLC I have (which is to say, I don't - except the Courier pack) and my own playstyle, it's one of the best investments I made.

[Teneb]

Took the new weapons for a spin. The minigun simply mows through non-specials as well as tazers and cloakers. Pretty bad against bulldozers (too tough), sniper (too far) and shields (no penetration). The RPG though... that thing is just way too much fun. Instantly kills anything, even bulldozers. Only 5 shots though.

Of note is that neither weapon is affected by the enforcer perk that grants infinite ammo after dropping an ammo bag.

EDIT: Some testing indicates neither are replenished by ammo pickups on the ground, only bags. I hope this is a bug.

My final opinion is that both are pretty fun to use, and quite effective, but are not to be carried at the same time.

[beorn080]

Personally, I'm a fan of The Judge. It shreds everything at close quarters.

[scrdest]

I'm running with Crosskills, lately, but that's for a quite irrational reason - I simply am too damn fond of 1911-family pistols.

[Teneb]

Going to correct myself a bit. The overkill pack weapons are affected by the unlimited ammo perk. It was just a bug. Still can't pick up ammo from the ground for them.

[sjm9876]

Yeah, neither can use ammo pickups - balance reasons. Specifically stated on the purchase screen, so not a bug.

And the beautiful thing about payday is that just about any weapon can be made feasible. I'm a huge fan of a slightly modded JP36, and that's despite having all the weapon DLC - it's very much my close quarters assault rifle of choice.

[sjm9876]

I'm personally a fan of the nagant for mid range maps. The ammo pickup rate is good enough that you don't have to be too careful, and that damage will one hit a shield with a headshot. More importantly for how I use it, you can multishot. But it isn't really a sniper's sniper I'd guess.

As more SMGs, I personally dislike them too. Then again, one of my crew (who is the best by a long margin) will usually take one as a secondary when he's using a sniper, and that works very well for him. No idea why though