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[Loud Whispers]

If you're British, i call bullshit. Sure their are those that exploit it, but they're generally outliers, at least in the younger age groups.

???
This is one of those misunderstood things, bit O' clarification as to what point you're making?

I find the notion that you can rape someone without being aware of it rather absurd.

+ Booze

[Max White]

See, this isn't an argument. Just saying "QFT" would have been more productive.

Please don't make a post like this again.

Well neither is

Max, you were doing so well until you posted...

If you are going to try and stop people from enjoying themselves, at least don't nit pick about it. If I was saying this was rape and poking fun at somebody arguing the other side, I have a unproven hunch that you wouldn't say anything at all.

[Scoops Novel]

No excuse, though i thank you for drawing my attention back to that. Take note, Willfor.

Loud whisper's, you were saying across the ocean to a American, on a board primarily consisting of Americans followed i think by the British. Hence statement.

[penguinofhonor]

I actually hadn't noticed Willfor's post, which is just as bad. There's no conspiracy here, just a slip-up.

[Vector]

I just want to clarify, make sure I understand what you are saying.
Women, because of cultural conditioning, can no longer expected to speak openly, and instead depend on people reading their minds?

Is that what you mean to imply?

Women often get a lot of backlash from speaking their minds, and as such deal with a lot of situations in which their feelings are disregarded because speaking up is as bad as, or worse than, just lumping it.  This statement is made to speak to those who say "well, just say something!!" as though it were easy.  "Why won't you tell the cops--you told him no, so why not report it?"  "Why won't you say you're being annoyed?"

This obviously doesn't apply to "I withdrew consent, and then I informed the cops," but it does apply to other scenarios where people can't understand why someone wouldn't "just" speak up.

[Max White]

Ok, the idea that a woman would fear going to the police, I can understand that. As long as we aren't trying to imply that a woman can accuse any sexual partner of rape just because she didn't feel like saying no at the time. There is a line, that is going over it.

[Vector]

Max White, exactly how long have we known each other?  Come on.

[penguinofhonor]

To clarify the Max/Willfor thing, you can "enjoy yourself", but I think your posts should still have some substance to them. People posting just to mock each other isn't something I can see remaining harmless for very long.

[kaijyuu]

I just want to clarify, make sure I understand what you are saying.
Women, because of cultural conditioning, can no longer expected to speak openly, and instead depend on people reading their minds?

Is that what you mean to imply?

Women often get a lot of backlash from speaking their minds, and as such deal with a lot of situations in which their feelings are disregarded because speaking up is as bad as, or worse than, just lumping it.  This statement is made to speak to those who say "well, just say something!!" as though it were easy.  "Why won't you tell the cops--you told him no, so why not report it?"  "Why won't you say you're being annoyed?"

This obviously doesn't apply to "I withdrew consent, and then I informed the cops," but it does apply to other scenarios where people can't understand why someone wouldn't "just" speak up.

You have a right to speak your mind though, and if others have a problem with that then shame on them.*


*this is assuming they're getting upset you said anything at all, not being upset as to the content of what you're saying, of course. And all other standard caveats so as to encourage civil confrontation and resolution for disagreements.

[Max White]

Max White, exactly how long have we known each other?  Come on.

Well, I don't like to take things for granted. I know a lot of people who I both like and respect who will sometimes have views I disagree with. The only way to go is to do your best to separate the argument from the person saying it, so on that basis I can't just assume you mean what I figure you would mean.

Always best to clarify.

[Vector]

The only way to go is to do your best to separate the argument from the person saying it, so on that basis I can't just assume you mean what I figure you would mean.

Yes, and I think you can do that with just slightly less suspicion and introduction of the term "feminazi" to this thread.

You have a right to speak your mind though, and if others have a problem with that then shame on them.

Yes.  I know that.  You know that.  But it took some time after graduating high school to figure out that, even if I was going to have to swallow a lot of shit, I might as well stand up for myself.

It's honestly very hard.


I've been looking for another particular data sheet on folks' understanding of consent, scrdest, but there is a general lack of understanding what consent means in young populations.  Sorry, I'm looking for the one where it's not embedded in an article; I'll see if I can't find it.

[Willfor]

When I posted I didn't have enough time to make a substantive enough post, especially considering I could go on for pages about how generally frustrated I am with the fact that this very murky situation sits smack dab in the middle of a legitimate problem for many women -- a problem that is in no way getting better -- could easily be used to discredit women who don't lie about being raped. We just had a discussion where a person who made assertions was problematic to debate about, and here's another one.

I should have known better and either not posted or tried to expand what I wanted to say later when I had more time.

[Max White]

Yes, and I think you can do that with just slightly less suspicion and introduction of the term "feminazi" to this thread.

Oh come on, would that be even nearly as fun for anybody?
Could you imagine if we just agreed without all these conditions and technicalities and suspicion involved? Why there would be no reason to say anything at all!

[DJ]

Drunk sex = rape again? I can give you that if one of the parties is significantly more sober, but if they're both equally drunk who's the perpetrator and who's the victim?

[kaijyuu]

You have a right to speak your mind though, and if others have a problem with that then shame on them.

Yes.  I know that.  You know that.  But it took some time after graduating high school to figure out that, even if I was going to have to swallow a lot of shit, I might as well stand up for myself.

It's honestly very hard.

* kaijyuu nods.