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Total Members Voted: 13

[tahujdt]

For those of you who aren't aware, the United States military can get in deep doodoo for "discriminating" against women, i.e., not enlisting them in the same capacity as men. Equal rights and stuff, right? Women should be able to do the same thing as men, right?

Here's the kicker. The physical test that women have to take is a lot less difficult than that for men. Thus, women who are incapable of performing equally as well as their male peers are still being enlisted and being sent into combat situations which they are incapable of handling.

Your thoughts?

[Willfor]

My aunt is in the Canadian military, and has been on multiple peacekeeping campaigns, and I am pretty damn proud of her. I am all for women in the military.

[tahujdt]

My aunt is in the Canadian military, and has been on multiple peacekeeping campaigns, and I am pretty damn proud of her. I am all for women in the military.

My grandmother was in the military, fighting in Afghanistan(actually, she was a nurse), until she retired. I am proud of such people as well.

The point is, if women are supposed to be equal, them they should be subjected to equal tests.

Also, I'm not sure how much the Iraqi "militia" would respect the rights of women.

[Max White]

Equal rights isn't about ensuring you have a 50/50 split, it is about giving everybody the same chance to prove themselves. There should be the exact same physical fitness test for both men and women, and when a woman passes that test there should be no more questions asked then when a man passes it.
In other words, it shouldn't be about men and women, it should be about people. The fact that there is an easier test for women than men only serves to widen a gap.

[tahujdt]

Equal rights isn't about ensuring you have a 50/50 split, it is about giving everybody the same chance to prove themselves. There should be the exact same physical fitness test for both men and women, and when a woman passes that test there should be no more questions asked then when a man passes it.
In other words, it shouldn't be about men and women, it should be about people. The fact that there is an easier test for women than men only serves to widen a gap.

For the most part, yes. However, sending women into combat against a number of our enemies would be a whole lot more dangerous for them than for men.

[Max White]

Would it? In what way?
Assuming a woman passes the same criteria as a man, they would both be on even terms wouldn't they? What makes a combat situation intrinsically more dangerous for women?

[tahujdt]

Would it? In what way?
Assuming a woman passes the same criteria as a man, they would both be on even terms wouldn't they? What makes a combat situation intrinsically more dangerous for women?

The fact that the kind of person who joins the Iraqi militia is usually the kind of person who would rape freely, given the chance.

[Max White]

And torture and murder freely too. Capture is never going to be nice for anybody involved. Men run just as high a risk.

[Willfor]

For the most part, yes. However, sending women into combat against a number of our enemies would be a whole lot more dangerous for them than for men.

Now you're just being sexist. If they pass the test on an equal standing they are equal. Everything from that point on will be equal. There will be no less dangerous tasks for anyone because they will all be equal.

If you're talking about the risk of rape after capture, that is a real danger to male soldiers too, and has been throughout all of human history. That is not, at all, a valid reason to say it's more dangerous for them.

[tahujdt]

And torture and murder freely too. Capture is never going to be nice for anybody involved. Men run just as high a risk.

The point is that women are at a unique risk, one that is highly psychologically damaging.

[tahujdt]

For the most part, yes. However, sending women into combat against a number of our enemies would be a whole lot more dangerous for them than for men.

Now you're just being sexist. If they pass the test on an equal standing they are equal. Everything from that point on will be equal. There will be no less dangerous tasks for anyone because they will all be equal.

If you're talking about the risk of rape after capture, that is a real danger to male soldiers too, and has been throughout all of human history. That is not, at all, a valid reason to say it's more dangerous for them.

You miss the point, which is that women are at a much higher risk of rape than men.

[Vector]

And torture and murder freely too. Capture is never going to be nice for anybody involved. Men run just as high a risk.

The point is that women are at a unique risk, one that is highly psychologically damaging.

Men are also at risk for rape.

Women are also much more likely to be raped by their fellow soldiers than to die in combat, or raped by the enemy, in the United States Army.  Perhaps you should worry more about that.

[tahujdt]

And torture and murder freely too. Capture is never going to be nice for anybody involved. Men run just as high a risk.

The point is that women are at a unique risk, one that is highly psychologically damaging.

Men are also at risk for rape.

Women are also much more likely to be raped by their fellow soldiers than to die in combat, or raped by the enemy, in the United States Army.  Perhaps you should worry more about that.

Believe me, I am very worried about that.

That would be another point that women are on unequal footing, if you'd consider it.

[Max White]

Women are also much more likely to be raped by their fellow soldiers than to die in combat, or raped by the enemy, in the United States Army.  Perhaps you should worry more about that.

Well yes, then is a concern, but one that can be fixed by changing military culture, rather than excluding women from the army.

We don't forbid women from walking through dark allies because of the risks involved.

[Vector]

When I went to college, there was a big banner the first day that said: "1/3 of the women here will be raped during their stay."

Indeed, 1/6 of the women in this country will be raped during their lifetimes.  The logical extension would be that women should try not to exist, because if they exist then there's a pretty high probability that they'll be raped.

I don't think that women should be excluded from the military because military culture is permissive in certain regards.

Women are also much more likely to be raped by their fellow soldiers than to die in combat, or raped by the enemy, in the United States Army.  Perhaps you should worry more about that.

Well yes, then is a concern, but one that can be fixed by changing military culture, rather than excluding women from the army.

We don't forbid women from walking through dark allies because of the risks involved.

That was what I meant--thanks for the clarification.