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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Stasis can work, but why use stasis if we can get useful knowledge by vivisecting? It's the best way to study something, way better than obserbation

I prefer to vivisect the hybrid, study what is good in the mix, what is not.   Later we always can repeat that using one of our dormant flowers + some drone\larva
Why try to fix something faulty thing if we can break it, study it, learn from the faults and later, when situation allows, remake with few faults

Next time we may choose to use pollinator drone and some specifically bread flower or any other combination we desire.

Also, by vivisecting the hybrid we can gain useful insights how to add basic photosynthetic abilities to Kai

Vivsecting should be done by joint research team of Nurse, Queen and new pollinator... And don't forget to bring a gun and anti fungal agents for the procedure

____________
After rethinking it a bit, stasis is an outright bad idea, we spent shitload of resources on that hybrid and must extract knowledge from it, either by continuing observation or by vivisecting which I prefer...  vivisecting can wait until we get first seed (or whatever flowers use to reproduce) or done immediately, I prefer immediately because offspring can be quite dangerous and\or kill the hybryd as many parasites do when they create offspring

[RAM]

There is not much reason to believe that an autopsy would teach us anything. We should be able to extract culture samples without maiming it. All things considered we will learn a vast amount more by letting it grow old...

There is no reason to believe that integrating alien technology would be easier than creating it ourselves, and we cannot rely upon stolen technology in the long term. My idea is to get a small hive developing advanced technology so that we can make the most of our resources. The sooner we get started on it the fewer resources we will waste on poorly optimised equipment. And right now we are more technology dependant than biology dependant, so it could give us a healthy boost right now when we need it. Finally, digging is almost completely useless in extraplanetary operations, and if we are forced into operating on a purely subterranean basis then external forces will be free to martial against us and can effectively quarantine us. We absolutely cannot afford to engage in aggression without extraplanetary transport, the alternative would leave us in a completely passive state. If we are truly to be utterly committed to the path of the body, then we should spawn an additional body queen, to accelerate our development.

[javierpwn]

Here is an extra vote for using the Jelly on a pollinator
Make him more sensitive to the Flowers
give him better Flower Adaptable appendages
Better ability to do dance
Fertility!

[Ukrainian Ranger]

There is no reason to believe that integrating alien technology would be easier than creating it ourselves

Yep, it's way harder to use a stolen car than creating new from scratch

My idea is to get a small hive developing advanced technology so that we can make the most of our resources.

Yep, exactly pure tech route. I know that you voted for a tech queen, but let's play the one that got voted
Besides let's sit in a hole until we build galaxyfaring spaceship or fleet that can rival one of bipeds, while sitting inside one small base... It's decades

and if we are forced into operating on a purely subterranean basis then external forces will be free to martial against us and can effectively quarantine us. 

Unless we build spaceships undeground. Or turn Mars into one large, kick-ass spaceship, completely changing it with thousands of billions of Kai or find another creative solution
Of cause we'll have diverse castes, having only undeground ones is boring, but castes that can exploit planet up to it's core are quite interesting. 

And right now we are more technology dependant than biology dependant

Something I want to change, I want subtype of hive to be able to survive with no tech at all, that will speed our spread rate and make us virtually impossible to destroy with anything but planet destroying weapons

We absolutely cannot afford to engage in aggression without extraplanetary transport,

We can. Because no, humans will not call that ubercivilization instantly. Firstly because they likely never met them, second because nations tend to not call for help unless  situation is dire

If we are truly to be utterly committed to the path of the body, then we should spawn an additional body queen, to accelerate our development.

Well, yes and no. One more royal jelly generating plant can be quite nice, but baby making can be done by other methods, like upgrading commanders and nurses, faster solution that will allow is to expand numbers faster. 
Besides there are huge amount of castes and subcaste we may create, we will not be committed to one type of queen, maybe we'll indeed make tech queen next, but there are no need to rush to the queen ignoring more tactical needs

__________________________

I dislike upgrade everything route for pollinator

My upgrade pollinator proposal
Just upgrade pollinator's intelligence and commanding  using exerience gained from vivisecting the LVL1 commander,  everything else is secondary. And I am not sure that trying both fertility and upgrade is a good idea.

First priority: Bring it's level of intelligence to intelligent level making it able to do plant related research and commanding up to ten pollinators\drones
Second priority: Upgrade of whatever organs used to communicate with flowers
Third priority: Try to raise it's intelligence to Independent level and ability to command up to 30 pollinators\drones

[kopout]

My polinator upgrade priorities


First priority: Ability to grow a queen's flower. We know that, at present, only one queen's flower can be grown per queen, and thus one per hive and one Royal Jellt every 5 days or so per hive. If on the other hand we can make polinator variant that grows queen flowers but
dosn't have any other queen like powers we can addapt much faster. We alredy know that non-queens can lay eggs so why not this?

Second priority: Upgrade of whatever organs used to communicate with flowers

Third priority: Bring it's level of intelligence to intelligent level making it able to do plant related research and commanding up to ten pollinators\drones

[Noxes]

I dislike upgrade everything route for pollinator

My upgrade pollinator proposal
Just upgrade pollinator's intelligence and commanding  using exerience gained from vivisecting the LVL1 commander,  everything else is secondary. And I am not sure that trying both fertility and upgrade is a good idea.

First priority: Bring it's level of intelligence to intelligent level making it able to do plant related research and commanding up to ten pollinators\drones
Second priority: Upgrade of whatever organs used to communicate with flowers
Third priority: Try to raise it's intelligence to Independent level and ability to command up to 30 pollinators\drones

I agree, trying to upgrade too much of the Pollinator is likely to simply not work very well. I'll second prioritizing upping his Intelligence and Independence.

My polinator upgrade priorities


First priority: Ability to grow a queen's flower. We know that, at present, only one queen's flower can be grown per queen, and thus one per hive and one Royal Jellt every 5 days or so per hive. If on the other hand we can make polinator variant that grows queen flowers but
dosn't have any other queen like powers we can addapt much faster. We alredy know that non-queens can lay eggs so why not this?

Second priority: Upgrade of whatever organs used to communicate with flowers

As I understand it there is a poorly understood psychic link between Us and the Flowers, and this link may be what allows the Queen's flower to exist (the link with the queen). If we can enhance this link in the Upgraded Pollinator perhaps we could enable another Queen's Flower Like Flower to develop. I suspect strengthening this psychic link may have other useful side-effects as well, but it's something of a gamble.

[kopout]

I'm not sure it would even work in the forst place but then I figure we can default to lower prioity upgrades

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Hm, that's an interesting idea with royal jelly.... , even if it will be able to plant something that can produce weaker analog of Jelly and\or less jelly than a proper queen's flower it will be a nice boost. Large +1


But intelligence should be the first priority, not third because:
a) Food is more important issue than jelly, we need that researcher as well as coordinator for pollinators
b) It's useless to have better organs to communicate with flowers if you have no brain to interpret information from them
c) Coordinated team of X pollinators can tend for farms better than one upgraded pollinator
d) We plan to fertilize it later, mating with dumb mate will lead to dumber Kai
e) It should be easier than other two, thanking to the vivisection experience

[Noxes]

But intelligence should be the first priority, not third

Agreed.

• Intelligence and Independence of Thought
• Understanding of Biology and the Flowers of Life in particular
• Enhanced Psychic Link with the Flower of Life

Fertility can come later.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I'd say


2. Understanding of flowers of life  (we have a body queen and a nurse for generic Biology)
3. Mimicing queen's link with queen flowers of life ( We just need to try to analyze our own genome responsible for communicating with queen's flower and try to mimic it, it will be worse than original, but hopefully useful. Enchanting what pollinators have to queens level looks harder...)

Other than that +1

[kopout]

I'd say


2. Understanding of flowers of life and plants in general  (we have a body queen and a nurse for generic Biology)
3. Mimicing queen's link with queen flowers of life ( We just need to try to analyze our own genome responsible for communicating with queen's flower and try to mimic it, it will be worse than original, but hopefully useful. Enchanting what pollinators have to queens level looks harder...)

Other than that +1

+1 Bolded is my addition

[10ebbor10]

On another note, there's little reason for the humans to call in the alien superweapons. Primarly, because these guys don't destroy planets, but entire solar systems.

[kopout]

There is that. Once we get the numbers (and depth) that the humans can't wipe us out on their own we are basicly set. They cant exactly call for help

On a more productive note we should probably lay that nurse egg.

Sugested course of action (not every thing, just my additions

Modify Yourself and current eggs to have something approaching 1% efficiency at solar conversion
Isolate methanophage bacteria
Lay the nurse egg
Upgrade polinator
Dig out a room with a grow light, Flower soil and celing shoot. build a crude air lock to seperate it from the the hive and put the Kaibrid in there. Feed it moist, nutriant enrich but low calory food and watch to see what it dose. No non-B casts alowed in there

[RAM]

There is no reason to believe that integrating alien technology would be easier than creating it ourselves

Yep, it's way harder to use a stolen car than creating new from scratch

((More like trying to win a professional bicycle race with a random stolen bike when the closest thing you have done is ride toboggans.)) We are talking about defeating their home-world's defence forces using a colonial industrial base that uses alien technology and we have based ourselves on biological knowledge. The odds of success are somewhere between laughable and hopeless.

My idea is to get a small hive developing advanced technology so that we can make the most of our resources.

Yep, exactly pure tech route. I know that you voted for a tech queen, but let's play the one that got voted
Besides let's sit in a hole until we build galaxyfaring spaceship or fleet that can rival one of bipeds, while sitting inside one small base... It's decades

This completely misses the point. We are biological, we will continue to be biological, we will adapt and spread so as to be independent of technology, but we will have technology that is suited to us. And we need not build a massive wonder-ship, we need just build escorts to keep our forces alive while they are ferried to whichever locations we need to control. If our forces are not superior to those of our opponents, then we will be trapped here while they martial their forces and attack us with liberty.

and if we are forced into operating on a purely subterranean basis then external forces will be free to martial against us and can effectively quarantine us. 

Unless we build spaceships undeground. Or turn Mars into one large, kick-ass spaceship, completely changing it with thousands of billions of Kai or find another creative solution
Of cause we'll have diverse castes, having only undeground ones is boring, but castes that can exploit planet up to it's core are quite interesting. 

Surface castes would be untenable due to hostile actions. Building spacecraft based upon biped technologies would be ineffective. Building biological or planetary craft would consume massive temporal resources and likely end with us bombarded into oblivion by purpose-built facilities.

And right now we are more technology dependant than biology dependant

Something I want to change, I want subtype of hive to be able to survive with no tech at all, that will speed our spread rate and make us virtually impossible to destroy with anything but planet destroying weapons

By all means, that plan is a good one, but we shall get there faster if our central hive has bountiful supplies of food and can sustain the optimal conditions for the flowers. The basics of sythesis and habitat control would be of value to extraplanetary operations and we would possess the means to better improve our facilities in the wake of our rapid advancement.

We absolutely cannot afford to engage in aggression without extraplanetary transport,

We can. Because no, humans will not call that ubercivilization instantly. Firstly because they likely never met them, second because nations tend to not call for help unless  situation is dire

The bipeds need no help, they possess sufficient resources to destroy us if we have no means of retaliation, and sufficient resources to prevent us from retaliating if we possess no means of spreading beyond this planet.

If we are truly to be utterly committed to the path of the body, then we should spawn an additional body queen, to accelerate our development.

Well, yes and no. One more royal jelly generating plant can be quite nice, but baby making can be done by other methods, like upgrading commanders and nurses, faster solution that will allow is to expand numbers faster. 
Besides there are huge amount of castes and subcaste we may create, we will not be committed to one type of queen, maybe we'll indeed make tech queen next, but there are no need to rush to the queen ignoring more tactical needs

Our tactical needs are to evade detection or to appear harmless. Our bodies are not yet ready to populate this world, so the path of the body demands a swifter rate of adaptation. That means more queens.

[kopout]

On the tech side I compleatly agree that We will need tech eventualy, but we have enough for now with the T-drones we inherated. In the futer we can go make a tech queen and have her and her hive build all kinds of nice stuff, just not now. Now what We need is food, Jelly, and security. Polinator gets us the first two and Our mining activities are working on geting us the third

On the nillitary side I fully agree that we arn't in any shape tio take the surface and am aprehensive about the scooting mision. In my opinion we should stay in the hole for a few more Jelly cycles until we can produce a highly camoflaged surface scote