Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheWetSheep]

Vector: You asked Demdemeh about two questions during the entirety of D1. Why is that?

Also, here's a hypothetical situation: Person A has built a very good case on Person B, to the point where you are 80% certain Person B is scum. However, you can't find anything suspicious about Person B besides what Person A has already pointed out. What do you do?

Lenglon:

Sheep: working on the principal that Vector flips scum, do you think that Leafsnail's accusation of Nightcrafter being her scumbuddy holds water? do you consider the way Nightcrafter voted Leafsnail a form of chainsaw defense? what of the way that Day has been tunneling Leaf all day long?

Respectively:

Yes. I think it's more likely that a Vector-NC scumteam would be spreading out their votes to appear independent than NC chainsawing. It's a pretty easy thing to do as Town, so I'm not reading much into it at the moment.

NightCrafter:

Well then, why aren't you voting Vector for using your arguments?

[Griffionday]

Leafsnail:

I did my re-read of the day, but I can't shake the feeling that you are scum.  I think this feeling comes down to the following main areas:


Area 1: Your opening salvo targeted people who wouldn't be around to defend their positions.  I mostly agreed with the Ranger lynch, and doing so made sense in the moment, the fact that it turned out wrong is disappointing, but I feel that you were trying to manipulate the town that just mislynched to target the people who were leading the lynch.  If I were scum I would be doing my best to build the disappointment about the lynch into a lynch on another townie who invested themselves too much into the lynch, or lynched under suspicious reasoning.  This is the primary reason why I was so vicious about your case on Vector.  Yes it was a valid reason to vote, but I feel a bit weak for a lynch case.

You then support this case by pointing to Demdemeh as her potential scum buddy, saying that she must have ignored his play to keep attention away from it.  This is odd to me as my understanding of Vector is that if she considered her scum buddy to be doing something stupid, she'd call them out on it and bus them.  So to me her silence indicates that if anything they are LESS likely to be a scum team than to be one.  As such your intire initial case on Vector is that she "should have known better than to lynch a D1 cop claim" which again is stupid for the same reason: Vector, if she did "know better", probably wouldn't do so as this is a teaching game that she has been taking seriously.  I understand that you may disagree with this reasoning, but I don't think your case against either of them was that strong.


Area 2: You keep saying things that seem to me to be: "If I'm scum and you are honestly suspicious of me you should have opinions on X, Y and Z."  It feels to me like you are trying to control my case against you to keep it on the places where you are not suspicious.  The most blatant one to my eyes is your insistence that I finger a potential partner for you.

Say what I will: you are more experienced at this game than I am.  I don't know how you interact with your partners, and me looking for it will only be speculation.  The goal of scum in this game is to act like town, blatantly indicating your partner is stupid and not something you'd be likely to do.  So why do you keep asking my to examine you in specific, unhelpful, ways?  I can only see it as you trying to control my hunting of you, which is something I can only see scum as doing.

If you have other points that you want me to discuss please bring them up in your response and I'll address them as best as possible.

[Leafsnail]

This is the problem I have with you demanding a second scum; you're obviously not stupid and you know how to avoid drawing attention to your teammates: why the hell would you leave an obvious interaction with someone else?  As such I'm forced to resort to common scum-hunting to find my scum team rather than build a mental palace like yours where you are always correct.  Now yes, there MIGHT be signs that will make sense in retrospect, but unless I can eliminate them on other grounds than their interaction with you; then I must consider them as possible scum team with you.  If I don't, and follow your example of creating a hypothetical scum team in my mind and mention it I'm mentally handicapping myself if I get the first lynch right.

I don't really understand your logic.  If the fact that I'm not stupid means that I'll never drop any kind of associative tell, couldn't you equally argue that the fact that I'm not stupid also means I'll never drop any kind of scumtell, and therefore there's no point in trying to call me scum at all?  Much like regular scumtells, associative tells aren't a thing you can really avoid dropping.

In addition, I really don't see how it could be a mental handicap to be able to form a hypothetical version of the two-man scumteam that actually exists, rather than a hypothetical one-man scumteam that doesn't.  But even if you really think it's impossible to identify two people as scum together, you could at least try to identify two people as scum separately.  Because two mafia members exist and therefore it's dumb to only have one lynch preference.

Leafsnail:

I did my re-read of the day, but I can't shake the feeling that you are scum.

You have the worst case of tunnel vision I have ever seen.  I will briefly respond to each of your points, and after that I'm not engaging you anymore since you clearly will not be convinced by anything.

Area 1: Your opening salvo targeted people who wouldn't be around to defend their positions.

This isn't and never has been a scumtell.  The people who are away are no more or less likely to be scum than anyone else, and I was not aware of Dem's absence at the time I made that post even if you think that I should have been.

I mostly agreed with the Ranger lynch, and doing so made sense in the moment, the fact that it turned out wrong is disappointing, but I feel that you were trying to manipulate the town that just mislynched to target the people who were leading the lynch.

Lynching cop claims in this setup day one is a bad move.  This is a basic point of mafia theory.  I have explained why multiple times.  Heck, you explained why yesterday.

If I were scum I would be doing my best to build the disappointment about the lynch into a lynch on another townie who invested themselves too much into the lynch, or lynched under suspicious reasoning.  This is the primary reason why I was so vicious about your case on Vector.  Yes it was a valid reason to vote, but I feel a bit weak for a lynch case.

If you assume that I'm scum it does naturally follow that I'm scum, yes.  If you remove that assumption, however, this point is nonsense.

You then support this case by pointing to Demdemeh as her potential scum buddy, saying that she must have ignored his play to keep attention away from it.  This is odd to me as my understanding of Vector is that if she considered her scum buddy to be doing something stupid, she'd call them out on it and bus them.

Your understanding of Vector is wrong.  In a setup like this, scum really cannot afford to bus day one, because a day one scum lynch puts the mafia at a terrible disadvantage, particularly if both a cop and a jailkeeper exist.  I'd go as far as to say that even a mafia member who can perfectly blend in as town would seriously struggle to recover from that.  Thus you would want to shield your buddies to a degree.

As such your intire initial case on Vector is that she "should have known better than to lynch a D1 cop claim" which again is stupid for the same reason: Vector, if she did "know better", probably wouldn't do so as this is a teaching game that she has been taking seriously.

Scum ICs are neither required nor expected to work with the town.  I don't know why you think they are, but they are not.

Area 2: You keep saying things that seem to me to be: "If I'm scum and you are honestly suspicious of me you should have opinions on X, Y and Z."  It feels to me like you are trying to control my case against you to keep it on the places where you are not suspicious.  The most blatant one to my eyes is your insistence that I finger a potential partner for you.

Say what I will: you are more experienced at this game than I am.  I don't know how you interact with your partners, and me looking for it will only be speculation.  The goal of scum in this game is to act like town, blatantly indicating your partner is stupid and not something you'd be likely to do.  So why do you keep asking my to examine you in specific, unhelpful, ways?  I can only see it as you trying to control my hunting of you, which is something I can only see scum as doing.

"controlling my hunting of you" isn't in any way a scumtell, and I don't even understand why you think it is considering that a town player would equally want you to unvote them.  And again, if you think I'm a perfect mafia player who would never drop any kind of associative tell, wouldn't that also mean all your attempts to lynch me are meaningless because I'll never drop an individual tell either?

[nightcrafter27]

Griffionday:

Can I call you Night, or do you have a different preferred shortening?

Sure thing, Day Night is fine, or NC if you're short on keystrokes.

You're referring to these lines:

-snip-

Presumably?

Exactly.

My intent with that comment was to attempt to point out another reason why I felt that Leafsnail was suspicious from his early attacks, specifically that he seemed to not have a mental image of Dem as a player before he created his case, which felt very reactionary.

The reason I asked was that it seemed odd to say that you knew of a lot of suspicious actions without bringing up any specifically. It looked like you were egging Leafsnail on, telling him that his reasons for a lynch were only a few of many without presenting the many.


TWS:

Well then, why aren't you voting Vector for using your arguments?

Vector used different arguments than me. I am voting you because your arguments were copies of Leafsnail's. I say 'were', because I'm referring to before Vector made her big post on her case on you. Her big post gave you a lot of material to hide behind, so I'm not looking at that period of time.


Leafsnail: You've been awfully quiet about the current cases on TWS, especially since they involve you. Anything to say on the matter?

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail: You've been awfully quiet about the current cases on TWS, especially since they involve you. Anything to say on the matter?

I guess it was worth asking him about the possibility of bandwagonning/buddying, but I think his responses have been pretty credible and I don't think a compelling explanation of his scum motivation has been presented (I don't really get the you/TWS team suggestion at all).

[Lenglon]

Tiruin: we need a prod on pup

Vector: when is this happening?

Leafsnail and TWS, I'll get to you in a bit.  Just woke up, taking a walk, etc.

Sheep

Lenglon:

Sheep: working on the principal that Vector flips scum, do you think that Leafsnail's accusation of Nightcrafter being her scumbuddy holds water? do you consider the way Nightcrafter voted Leafsnail a form of chainsaw defense? what of the way that Day has been tunneling Leaf all day long?

Respectively:

Yes. I think it's more likely that a Vector-NC scumteam would be spreading out their votes to appear independent than NC chainsawing. It's a pretty easy thing to do as Town, so I'm not reading much into it at the moment.

underline is mine.
could you please expand on the underlined section? I'm not following your train of thought well, especially since Vector and Nightcrafter are voting for the same person right now, not "spreading their votes". and yet you are voting for vector, and seem to think that Vector and nightcrafter are the scumteam.

[TheWetSheep]

Lenglon: I mean that they might at first vote different people to avoid looking like they were working together, then when one finds a good enough reason, switch so they're voting the same person.

[Griffionday]

I'm sorry for not being nearly as active as I should have, this weekend was a mess...
Leafsnail:

And again, if you think I'm a perfect mafia player who would never drop any kind of associative tell, wouldn't that also mean all your attempts to lynch me are meaningless because I'll never drop an individual tell either?

No, but since you're asking me to look for associative tells, I must assume that you are fairly confident that you've disguised them well enough to blend in.

You have the worst case of tunnel vision I have ever seen.  I will briefly respond to each of your points, and after that I'm not engaging you anymore since you clearly will not be convinced by anything.

Eh... I've exhausted myself here and have nothing to show for it.  I apologize for the hideous tunneling, I'll try to focus elsewhere until later tomorrow when it comes time to lynch (Mafia days).  Fair?

[Tiruin]

Vote standings:

• Griffionday(0) -
• Lenglon(0) -
• griffinpup(0) -
• nightcrafter27(0) -
• TheWetSheep(2) - Vector, nightcrafter27
• Vector(3) - TheWetSheep,  Leafsnail, Lenglon
• Leafsnail(1) - Griffionday,
• Not Voting(1) - griffinpup

Day 2 has begun and will end at June 18, 2013. [Tuesday] 9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker!


"_{I don't see anything.}"
"_{Shush, what did we learn from yesterday? Those trapdoors. Sure, we didn't see what remained of the Ambassador, but can we really trust the Keeper's words?}"
"_{What in blazes are you talking about?}"
"_{What she said earlier. Firstly, there would be a beast to harry us if we didn't do anything. Then this runed tablet which I've no idea on why it exists here.}"
"_{Here, here. We've still an invisible assailant if this tension is to go anywhere. Where should we be looking??...}"


Flavor for day 1, as well as flavor for night actions will be given at day 2 end because argh these 12 hour uni schedules x_x

[Tiruin]

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."

Vote standings:

• Griffionday(0) -
• Lenglon(0) -
• griffinpup(0) -
• nightcrafter27(0) -
• TheWetSheep(2) - Vector, nightcrafter27
• Vector(3) - TheWetSheep,  Leafsnail, Lenglon
• Leafsnail(1) - Griffionday,
• Not Voting(1) - griffinpup

Night 2 has begun and will end at June 20, 2013. [Thursday] 9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker!

Vector has been lynched! She was a Vanilla Town IC!

You are an Aeromancer. A teacher, a linguist, a scholar, a mathematician, a visionary, and an idealist are among most other things you've accomplished. Holding a position of renown among the schools of magic, an Aeromancer's duty is to be able to manipulate the very fabrics and laws of air and aerodynamics to their own thoughts and words. The latter notion, you've perfected without the prior use of magic, something which gives credence to your position.

Granted, you had to carry a knife at the time of that event...something which you would've cut a pie gifted to you--and something which the inspecting guards didn't believe as being not the killing weapon 'because it smelt of pie.' Figures.

Despite the usual minor trivialities of the day, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your wisdom in the war of words.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie. You win when the MAFIA are wholly eliminated, regardless of your survival UNLESS the number of MAFIA is equal to, or more than, TOWN players.))

((You are an IC!))

The seconds pass with tension hanging in the air, until Vector holds up her index finger as a gesture of silence, and grabs the bucket.

"Behind you."

The mirrorholder is splashed by the water! The mirror is wet! The holder is wet!

"W-what was that for?"

"One. Dispersion of light." She throws the bucket up--"Two, to create a passage for the viable application of force."--and casts a spell, hurling the bucket at breakneck speed, with a collateral effect on the holder who is pushed away for a split second, leaving the mirror hanging in the air before it shatters due to kinetic force.

"Three, action must be taken."

With the breaking of the mirror, the light rays diffuse and the runed tablet remains lit. The runes shimmer until they turn a melancholic gold, forming comprehensive words until the runes themselves melt and twist, turn and envelop each other and the tablet they're etched on/ Soon enough, the slurry of light fades into a diaphanous blanket, envisioning a scene which reminds you much of the ramparts of the Aerie.

"Impossible."

There were figures not in guard uniform, or even commoner wear moving throughout the area, cloaked and most likely not wanting to be seen by conventional eyes.

"This is impossible! Invaders in the perimeter of the Aerie? We must warn the people!"
"I fear it is too late. The tablet wasn't a trap or a tool for the enemy, and it was hard enough to decipher it, but a scrying instrument."

The tablet shimmers as the conversation drags on, slowly humming.

"Is it supposed to do that?"
"I am only a mage of the tradewinds, not a divination expert. But as far as I know. No."
"Why is it humming."
"Interference. Either those figures have wards protecting them against unwanted eyes--wards which we usually use here, mind you--or a physical being is close enough to interrupt the flow of magic."
"Err..you're right there, and I'd rather go with the latter...Look behind you."

The display of the situation was enthralling. The notion of a magical scrying device noting danger from below, as well as from within was much of a concern. Apparently, too much of a concern that it distracted the people from their main problem: the Beast.

"Spider! Above you!"

The spider itself, was perched in the same position it was always in. At a clearer view, you notice something akin to silk weaving covering its carapace and forming a small, thin cocoon around it. The webbing was reflecting and shifting the direction of the light. To make matters worse, Dariush disappears in a pungent, albeit cute, puff of smoke.

"I've got the door!"
"Quick! Move out!"

And as if on cue, the cocoon cracks; minute tears in the wreath covering the arachnid appear as you run towards the door, their opening only heard as your footsteps carry you away from the threat.

Tendrils of opaque smoke emanate from the cocoon, spreading from their point of origin and falling to the ground, moving and forming a darker and more sinister version of the spider and only until you reach the door that you see its true form. It was a being of magic, and it was moving at a pace much faster than any other creature of that size you've ever seen, straight in your direction.

"Quick, down the corridors! No time to shut that thing in."
"I'm stopping this here and now! Take this, it'll help."
"No, Vector, we can't leave you here!"
"Trust me. This'll make up for everything. Now go, before this gets bloody."

Footsteps echo through hollow halls. A decision was made, and the group fled, not turning an eye back on what would occur next. The appearance of alcoves and widened corridors mark your path indicating the approach to the Main Hall.

It seemed all to easy, until a strong gust of wind rushes past and knocks you all to the ground, snuffing all sources of light and coating the passage in a thin sheet of ice. One common thought passes mention before you black out.

She is innocent.

[Tiruin]

"Courage doesn’t always roar, sometimes it’s the quiet voice at the end of the day whispering ‘I will try again tomorrow’."

Vote standings:

• Griffionday(0) -
• Lenglon(0) -
• nightcrafter27(0) -
• TheWetSheep(0) -
• Leafsnail(0) -
• Not Voting(5) - Griffionday, Lenglon, nightcrafter27, TheWetSheep, Leafsnail

Day 3 has begun and will end at June 26, 2013. [Wednesday] 9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker!


Heat.

Light.

The familiar feeling on your skin wakes you up from your slumber; the horror of recent events now only a vague memory as you make a headcount.

One. Two. Three. Four.

Five.

Five left. And it had all been so perfect before you set up safety back in the hall. The very same hall in where the troubles began. Safety is here, but the lack of one of your number leaves a sinking feeling in your hearts.

The presence of your weapons in the area only makes the enormity of the situation worse as you realize there is but one observer. The White King.

"I've had enough of this. We're being led around like animals. Why can't we end this right here and now?"
"Because we're dwindling. And I believe the only help we can get is from ourselves."
"Don't tell me they're still watching."

One of you gestures out the stained glass window. Balls of iridescent fire were floating about.

"Just. Perfect."

griffinpup has been slain! He was a Jailkeeper!

You are a Gryphon Handler. A man of stern build and sterner principle, a handler's duty lies in the correct application of force, knowledge, word and calm when need me. Ever since birth, you've found yourself with a charisma which few others could contend with--even the animals felt your gift, and embraced your presence. You, being the man you are, received them in turn; the use of your skills and their application would prove worthwhile in the trials of the days coming.

Who the killer may be, and based from what you've seen and heard, you've made a personal promise to stop such a tragedy from happening again. While your life has been always on the lower rung of the noble ladder of society (in terms of work, you're quite a good man), you know a few tricks up your sleeve which even the guardians of the Aerie would pay to know. While you aren't as skilled as the Wardens of the bastion, nor as tactful as the inquisitorial forces, you're the best they have at the moment.

A suspect under grounds of death, and yet, a tool for the safekeeping of life.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Jail any individual, except yourself. This saves the target if the same target was singled out for death during the Night but also blocks the target from acting. This does not stop any inspects from working on the target, however.

You win when the MAFIA are wholly eliminated, regardless of your survival UNLESS the number of MAFIA is equal to, or more than, TOWN players.))

A small excuse for me being burdened by all this work. Sorry for the lack of flavor, everyone. I'll get to posting it down..later on. :X

[Dariush]

One of the iridescent ballls is waving a small red flag and pipes in an unnaturally high voice 'Go team scum!'. You wonder what that is supposed to mean.

[zombie urist]

Noooo. Go team town!

[TheWetSheep]

OK then. We're at Lylo.

Leafsnail: I take it you're surprised Vector flipped town. So am I. What are you thinking now?

Lenglon: Did you mean to keep your vote on Vector until day end?

Griffionday: If it's obvious that your lynch target isn't being lynched, do you think it's a good idea to keep your vote on them or to switch to someone less scummy but who has a possibility of being lynched? Because it looks to me like you were keeping your vote in the background. Also, why did you not respond to most of Leafsnail's long post?

NightCrafter: I suppose you're even more sure I'm scum now. But to address your accusations of bandwagoning, I'll pose you the same question I asked Vector that never got answered:

Also, here's a hypothetical situation: Person A has built a very good case on Person B, to the point where you are 80% certain Person B is scum. However, you can't find anything suspicious about Person B besides what Person A has already pointed out. What do you do?

[Vector]

Hi dudes.

You're playing a game of mafia.  There's two scum left, and only one person who is playing has posted.

How's about you actually show up, rather than handing the game over via a LYLO no-lynch?