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[Lenglon]

Captain Ford, we need your input on this situation. You haven't posted for two days, and frankly that's extremely worrying considering you are one of our ICs. Where are you?

he wasn't here last weekend either. I'm not bothered by his absence today and yesterday, but Thursday's low input and Friday's total disappearance is pretty worrying. we're probably going to have to wait until Monday to get input from him, assuming he doesn't stay disappeared like he did on Friday.

[Griffionday]

Demdemeh:

I am going somewhere with this, please humor me.

Ranger:

Since I've had time to think on your role claim I have a couple other questions for you to try to figure out what you were thinking when you claimed.

Why did you role claim so early?  You had over a day left (well, disregarding the fact that it was the weekend...).
How do you expect us to verify your claim? 
Lets say the reverse happened, and someone who had a large amount of pressure on them cracked and claimed cop; how would you respond?


Birdy:

Captain Ford, we need your input on this situation. You haven't posted for two days, and frankly that's extremely worrying considering you are one of our ICs. Where are you?

While his advice would be extremely useful and enlightening, I think we should be trying to get on without relying on the ICs.  Press where you can, try to figure out what is actually happening and give the ICs an example of what you think should be done in this situation.  If you're less than perfect, they'll have something they can advise you on and if you do well you move the game forward. 

Basically it's you who's playing the game; you have your own way of looking at things, your own way of gathering and interpreting information, and your own play style that is geared toward gathering the information you find useful.  They do as well, which is why them giving you an algorithm for this situation will be infinitely less helpful than them giving you pointers on how to play your game more effectively.

"Fly with what you know, but tread lightly where you land."

[Vector]

The reason why we need Captain Ford's input is because I think he's scum, not for any other reason >_> <_<

While his advice would be extremely useful and enlightening, I think we should be trying to get on without relying on the ICs.  Press where you can, try to figure out what is actually happening and give the ICs an example of what you think should be done in this situation.  If you're less than perfect, they'll have something they can advise you on and if you do well you move the game forward. 

Basically it's you who's playing the game; you have your own way of looking at things, your own way of gathering and interpreting information, and your own play style that is geared toward gathering the information you find useful.  They do as well, which is why them giving you an algorithm for this situation will be infinitely less helpful than them giving you pointers on how to play your game more effectively.

"Fly with what you know, but tread lightly where you land."

But yeah, this is true, too.

[Captain Ford]

Update: I've been keeping house for my mother, who's away at a conference, which has taken up much more of my time than I expected, as well as sapping a lot of my energy since I'm horribly allergic to her cats.

I have three or four half-written posts sitting here that are horribly outdated now. I got hung up on trying to get a read on Day to reply to Lenglon, and never managed to get a post out the door.

I'm actually at work right now, but things are abnormally quiet and I think I might actually be able to put something together right now.

Ugh, no. Real life has put a lot of obstacles in my way lately. I'm sorry, but I just don't think I can do a proper job of this right now. (I should have dropped out a lot sooner, but I guess my pride was getting in the way)

Unvote
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[Vector]

Okay, fair =)  Thanks for letting us know.

[RangerCado]

Griffy: Claiming in the last 6-12 hours would do what it did when i first claimed. I'd gain 2-3 votes and die immediately. I doubted i'd be able to muster up the support for an extension as Shinigami, and maybe lenglon, would just go against it, needing the 6 players to vote for extention of the remaining seven.

I have no idea. If i somehow get an inspection through, i may hit a mafia. And if i don't and you kill me tomorrow, hey i got everyone a confirmed townie.

At first, same as everyone has so far. But having done it myself now, I would look at those voting him. Whats their position, are they firm in their standing enough to go for the lynch, how many immediately backed off and who suddenly jumped in but left in their next post after a couple hours. If theirs enough people stuck in their lynch vote, i could see someone else panicking. (especially since this is a BM) It all comes down to, could you see this player doing this?

Shinigami: No talking to me about mafia at school. Seriously, were not supposed to so stop trying to start conversations about it if we're in the same game unless we're both mafia or a cult.

Vector: Your telling Shinigami to not vote off of who he thinks is scum but to vote on who he knows is scum.. but then tell lenglon to do the exact opposite... Why are you contradicting yourself?

Ford: Sorry to see you go man.

Lenglon: Probably Shinigami. He seems like the kind to pull a Webadict, becoming more and more towny looking by bussing all of his scum buddies. (This is just from reading Webs scum games where he seems to bus almost all of his scum buddies early if its in his best interest, sorry if this is inaccurate)

[Vector]

. . . No, I told Shinigami not to vote for people based on his personal dislike of them.

[birdy51]

Ford: Indeed... Sorry to see you go.

[Captain Ford]

The activity in this game is simply amazing, too. Do you realize that you already have more posts in the first day then there were in the entire last game?

[griffinpup]

Demdemeh:
The reason that I was questioning you on pressuring Shinigami was that you gave limited reasons and kept your vote on him without following through.  Those questions were answered in part by your excuse of bad play.  However, I didn't make a mistake.  At the time, I was pressuring Shinigami, and doing so actively.  Unlike you, I kept onto him.  You merely asked a few questions then left your vote on him for no reason.  If you had a reason, you never said it, and that was why I was questioning you on it.

My current opinion on Cado...  I believe that if there is a real cop, and Cado isn't it, that they should claim, allowing an insta-lynch on Cado and getting rid of a mafia.  If this happens, it would give us at least seven people left.  We might be left without any power roles, but we still have an excellant chance of winning.  If there is no counter-claim, we have to assume he's either the real cop or a mafia claiming cop.

Shinigami, you still haven't answered the questions you promised me.  Don't think you can sneak out of that just because Cado claimed cop.

The activity in this game is simply amazing, too. Do you realize that you already have more posts in the first day then there were in the entire last game?

And we just voted our second extension on day one.  It's gonna get a lot longer.

Did I miss any questions directed at me?  If so, please tell me.

[Griffionday]

Ford:

Sorry to see you go; you would have been an excellent balance to Vector in terms of philosophy on the game.

Good luck with life and get back soon.

griffinpup:

My current opinion on Cado...  I believe that if there is a real cop, and Cado isn't it, that they should claim, allowing an insta-lynch on Cado and getting rid of a mafia.  If this happens, it would give us at least seven people left.  We might be left without any power roles, but we still have an excellant chance of winning.  If there is no counter-claim, we have to assume he's either the real cop or a mafia claiming cop.

I disagree with cop claiming today; I feel that this needlessly exposes them when they can still be useful.

For one: we don't actually have any guarantee that there is a town cop to be able to counter claim.  If Ranger is unreasonably lucky scum this will give him free reign to wreck havoc...

If there IS a cop I agree that the cop should counter-claim; but not today.  Think about it from their perspective: they know that Ranger is lying scum, and can afford therefor to focus on someone else for the night.  This way when they DO claim they can also give town their read for the night.  On the other hand I don't believe they should wait for lylo to claim, as that puts undue pressure on town to verify their claim.  This makes tomorrow for the optimal time for them to counter claim.  I'm willing to unvote Ranger and see what tomorrow brings on his case.

[griffinpup]

griffinpup:

My current opinion on Cado...  I believe that if there is a real cop, and Cado isn't it, that they should claim, allowing an insta-lynch on Cado and getting rid of a mafia.  If this happens, it would give us at least seven people left.  We might be left without any power roles, but we still have an excellant chance of winning.  If there is no counter-claim, we have to assume he's either the real cop or a mafia claiming cop.

I disagree with cop claiming today; I feel that this needlessly exposes them when they can still be useful.

For one: we don't actually have any guarantee that there is a town cop to be able to counter claim.  If Ranger is unreasonably lucky scum this will give him free reign to wreck havoc...

If there IS a cop I agree that the cop should counter-claim; but not today.  Think about it from their perspective: they know that Ranger is lying scum, and can afford therefor to focus on someone else for the night.  This way when they DO claim they can also give town their read for the night.  On the other hand I don't believe they should wait for lylo to claim, as that puts undue pressure on town to verify their claim.  This makes tomorrow for the optimal time for them to counter claim.  I'm willing to unvote Ranger and see what tomorrow brings on his case.

OK.  I accept your argument for why the cop could wait for tomorrow before claiming.  So... Just back to scumhunting then?  One more thing though.  What if there is no counter claim tomorrow?

[Griffionday]

Then we do exactly what we would do if there was a claim:  Weigh our opinions of him and see if we think he is telling the truth, if he is then we don't lynch him, if he isn't we lynch him.  In the case where we're unsure... I don't know.  Leaving him alive to lylo could be risky as the stakes go up exponentially, but on the other hand if we're not sure it could be worth giving ourselves another day to think on it...

As I said before: "wifom now vs. wifom later."  If you want to put it off until we may have more information, I'm okay with that.  But the thing is we can't really trust him now; he may report town tomorrow, in which case meh, or he could be scum and decide to bus tomorrow.  This is not factoring in the effect the jail-keeper will have on the role...  As I said; I'm willing to accept a no lynch because we might get more information; but we'll NEVER be out of a position where we second guess ourselves on his claim.

[Demdemeh]

Gday: I see what you're saying, now. I confused some time stamps a bit, and going back through I noticed that pup's approach of Shinigami came a couple days after his attack of my own reasons. And you see that he's further clarified that more recently.

Lenglon: If you're referring to Shinigami's claim earlier in the day that the probability of the two of you both being scum was low, that was a legitimate response to Gday's statements to that exact fact earlier in the same day. While you're right that it definitely leaves room to infer that he is scum, it leaves equal room to infer that you might be, too. However, Gday's slip was a flat-out admission of guilt through claiming adversity with town. There's a pretty big difference between the two.

So, basically, accidentally claiming the scum alignment is worth pressing, while vague statements which hold up as responses to claims around them aren't necessarily. Not that I agree with your pressure being diverted; I was still after Shinigami at that point, as well.

RangerCado: At this point, I don't think it's possible for me to trust any claim of successful power use on your part. Even if you're right, if you're scum, you could just as easily be bussing... and with nine townies to two scum, we can't afford to accidentally lynch someone you outright claim is scum, anyway. You took a big risk claiming on day one, but I don't really see any way that could pay off, especially since the odds of the actual town cop investigating the right guy in the first night are not very good. If your purpose was to confuse everyone, then you may pat yourself on the back. You've done so admirably. You are an excellent distraction.

[Griffionday]

Demdemeh:

Gday: I see what you're saying, now. I confused some time stamps a bit, and going back through I noticed that pup's approach of Shinigami came a couple days after his attack of my own reasons. And you see that he's further clarified that more recently.

You still haven't answered my question:

Is there or is there not a similarity between your attack on Shinigami and griffinpup's attack, that could be reasonably construed to be him "voting for Shinigami for the same reasons as you"?