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Author Topic: BM XLI: On Wings of Haven -- Scum Victory!  (Read 102048 times)

Demdemeh

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #390 on: May 25, 2013, 10:12:51 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I did not say that defending me was good for town. I said that it was a form of reverse psychology, especially since he had me in his scum list. I was expressing my appreciation a bit wryly, and should have been more clear about that. In addition, since I have publicly declared in the past that I suspect that Shinigami is scum, it should be a given that I want more pressure on him. Why do you think I should feel any other way?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think that I mentioned exactly what I found odd. It wasn’t that he was attacking Shinigami, but that he was attacking ME for attacking Shinigami, and very closely to his own attack. I was indicating a level of hypocrisy that I found suspicious, and I also think that I was very clear in pointing that out. You seem to have deliberately missed the point I was trying to make, and I think you’re trying to twist my own words into a whole new meaning. I don’t appreciate that, Griffionday. Is there some reason you’re so touchy about pup being addressed so pointedly?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I’m actually not that assertive in real life, and I also said that I’m new to this level of focus in a forum environment. I think that that is pretty evident in my earlier posts. I’m also beginning to adjust, and am growing more comfortable with a more assertive approach, as I think I’m displaying rather well, now. I admitted that my earlier actions weren’t very productive, and stated my reasons why. I’m not sure why you’re not satisfied with them, and frankly, I find it quite suspicious and annoying that you’re basically rephrasing my earlier statements as questions and turning them on me again. It seems like poor form, at the least; possibly even a scum tactic.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I appreciate your explanation for why you feel that’s poor form. Your reasons are understandable, and I will consider them next time I think to ask that sort of question. I won’t promise that I won’t decide to ask that sort of question in the future, but I now have a new perspective on the sort of information it provides, and the implications of having that public.

So, Demdemeh, if I could kind of wrap up your whole argument about your bad play before, it was just that?  You were just playing poorly, acting defensively, and not knowing how to push, and doing this not because  you were scum, but because you were merely inexperienced and, for lack of a better word, bad?  You've now improved your play substantially, and I do accept this argument for now.
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Thank you for the accurate and concise paraphrasing, griffinpup. That is precisely what I was trying to say.

As far as this whole RangerCado development is concerned, the entire thing is WIFOM. Anything said publicly will alter the behavior of everyone in this scenario in an unpredictable way. We can say what we expect from every outcome, but that will only give the scum the chance to manipulate those expectations. What are the consequences of ignoring his claim? It's exactly as meaningful as everything else at this point, and I'd like to point out that there is even a mafia role cop in the same set of possibilities. So he could be correct, and still be scum. In fact, looking over the list, there is exactly one more chance for a mafia role cop to exist than there is for a town cop. So it could even be answer C: Stupid Mafia Cop. What does that do to the situation?

That last statement about town taking out the power roles just kind of clinches it for me, I think. RangerCado is the scum cop, and GDay is his godfather friend.
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RangerCado

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #391 on: May 25, 2013, 10:27:17 pm »

I didn't think shinigami would change anyway. As for taking the easy way, I was really trying dude. May not be up to your standards, but i tried. I asked questions, went after Dem (however weak there) Then went for Birdy.

Dem: You do know theres no guarentee for a godfather right? It could be a roleblocker instead. For all we know there could be the Mafia Role Cop and a Regular Mafia only. The only one that seems guarunteed is the Role Cop judging from pre-game conversation.
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Demdemeh

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #392 on: May 25, 2013, 10:32:04 pm »

Dem: You do know theres no guarentee for a godfather right? It could be a roleblocker instead. For all we know there could be the Mafia Role Cop and a Regular Mafia only. The only one that seems guarunteed is the Role Cop judging from pre-game conversation.

Yeah. You're right. I just glanced back again and noticed that, too. Which role does GDay have, Cado, since you're the cop?
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RangerCado

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #393 on: May 25, 2013, 10:41:09 pm »

Dem: How should i know? I'm the town cop. Griff has a 22% chance of being mafia and some weird percentage i don't want to calculate of having a role as mafia so its possible he is a mafia power role. Its also possible hes the Jailer or the "real town cop" since you think i'm lying. The only way to know for sure, is to be mafia, or kill someone to flip them. Why the sudden interest in roles by the way? Possibly role-fishing here? Trying to find the jailer too?
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griffinpup

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #394 on: May 25, 2013, 10:42:49 pm »

Why the sudden interest in roles by the way?
Umm...  I'd assume the sudden interest in roles stems from the fact that you just claimed cop.  I might be wrong though.  :-\  Frankly, I doubt it.
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RangerCado

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #395 on: May 25, 2013, 10:45:10 pm »

meant mafia roles. I expect speculation over town ones right now.
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griffinpup

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #396 on: May 25, 2013, 10:51:00 pm »

meant mafia roles. I expect speculation over town ones right now.
Ok.  Where does the bad come in over speculation over mafia roles?  That doesn't exactly scream SCUMTELL at the moment.
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Demdemeh

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #397 on: May 25, 2013, 10:51:46 pm »

Well, since GDay all but claimed mafia up there, and implied that you were a mafia power role with the whole "don't make all our power roles vulnerable to town" thing, I think it's natural to wonder if any other power roles are involved, don't you? Of course, GDay may very well BE mafia, and be attempting to bus you as the actual Town Cop, but that is, of course, WIFOM. As for myself, I think that I've gotten enough ammo lately to feel pretty strongly that GDay is scum, what with the rampant misinterpretation and attacking in the last posts addressed my way, and with the whole typo thing. That just seems like too much of a Freudian slip to me, and I don't think that it's likely that GDay has played enough scum roles in the past to justify that sort of thinking without actually being scum this time. It's just too convenient a typo, really, and there's nothing to gain from looking that scummy, especially on day one; not from an actual townie, anyway.

Yeah, the speculation over mafia ones is pretty much from that same typo, and the same implication of your involvement with it. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Worst case scenario for town, you're telling the truth and either get lynched or nightkilled. Middle of the road, you're lying and are scum (because why would a vanilla townie fakeclaim a role? That would just make people MORE suspicious, as has been rather obvious). Best case scenario, you're telling the truth and survive the night, with useful information for town in the morning. Of course, I don't think we'll ever be able to actually trust you, simply because of how you came out, but c'est la vie.
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Griffionday

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #398 on: May 25, 2013, 11:43:31 pm »

Vector:
Uh-huh.  Nice slip, scumbucket.  I'll be watching you very closely.

...Meaning you weren't already?  It's a bit odd that you'd be that cavalier about someone you claimed to find suspicious.


Demdemeh:
I did not say that defending me was good for town. I said that it was a form of reverse psychology, especially since he had me in his scum list. I was expressing my appreciation a bit wryly, and should have been more clear about that. In addition, since I have publicly declared in the past that I suspect that Shinigami is scum, it should be a given that I want more pressure on him. Why do you think I should feel any other way?
Because you're not the one applying it.  Yes you're asking him questions, but the only ones with real pressure are your requoted ones from griffinpup  (Who you spend the post lashing out at.) 

I think that I mentioned exactly what I found odd. It wasn’t that he was attacking Shinigami, but that he was attacking ME for attacking Shinigami, and very closely to his own attack. I was indicating a level of hypocrisy that I found suspicious, and I also think that I was very clear in pointing that out. You seem to have deliberately missed the point I was trying to make, and I think you’re trying to twist my own words into a whole new meaning. I don’t appreciate that, Griffionday. Is there some reason you’re so touchy about pup being addressed so pointedly?
What I care about is the fact that YOU were being that pointy with no real reason. 

You had claimed that you were touchy because he was attacking you for attaking Shinigami; and I apologize for not beliveing that you meant that; but it makes absolutely no sense.  For one there is the fact that he WASN'T attacking you for attacking Shinigami; quite the reverse in fact, he said you had a point with your original post.  Then there's the fact that your cases are quite dissimilar; he was pressing Shinigami on his reads while you... were still on a vote about his being unable to think under pressure.

I admitted that my earlier actions weren’t very productive, and stated my reasons why. I’m not sure why you’re not satisfied with them, and frankly, I find it quite suspicious and annoying that you’re basically rephrasing my earlier statements as questions and turning them on me again. It seems like poor form, at the least; possibly even a scum tactic.
See above for as to why I'm not satisfied about your answers.  As to why I take your statements and question you about them; that's to make sure you know exactly what I'm reading you as saying, in the case that what you meant was something completely different.  I'm attacking you based on what I see you as having said; I want to be clear to you about what that is.
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #399 on: May 25, 2013, 11:58:45 pm »

Vector:
Uh-huh.  Nice slip, scumbucket.  I'll be watching you very closely.

...Meaning you weren't already?  It's a bit odd that you'd be that cavalier about someone you claimed to find suspicious.

*shrug*

Previously, I didn't find you all that suspicious, but you made one of the slips I often almost make as scum.  So you've jumped a few places on my list.


I didn't think shinigami would change anyway. As for taking the easy way, I was really trying dude. May not be up to your standards, but i tried. I asked questions, went after Dem (however weak there) Then went for Birdy.

Okay, now I see the problem.  You haven't built yourself a lynchdar yet.

Bud, whatever your alignment is, you have two assignments:

a. better learning how to harass people and get information out of them
b. getting a better idea of how safe or unsafe you are, and not giving up until it's really the eleventh hour.  Don't Panic!


Heeeeey, Captain Ford.  I think your proteges need some hints as to how to play through this situation.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Demdemeh

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #400 on: May 26, 2013, 12:10:45 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Isn't one of the major points to this game to unite town against a perceived member of the scum team and have him lynched? Should it matter to me that I'm not the one applying pressure to someone I believe is scum? I don't think it should. I think I should be glad to direct pressure where I feel it's due. And you've done quite the job of redirecting that suspicion from Shinigami, here, I think. As for my response to griffinpup, at the time his attack on me for my own suspicions against Shinigami was, I felt, a little over-the-top. My own response seemed to be actually a little lower-impact than the original attack. I think that it's obvious that one of the things I've learned so far is that you have to be a little pointy to get your point across. Vaguaries never helped anyone communicate anything. In rereading his post, it is obvious that pup was after more than just my attacking Shinigami; he wanted to know my reasons. That's not quite the reverse, but it's not the same, either, so we're both wrong. And, to undermine your own foundation, I acknowledged that at the time, anyway.

I still rather think that some large portion of your misunderstanding of my statements is deliberate. You came onto me rather hot while I was at the top of the suspicion charts, and you're keeping it up in the face of this new scandal. Your little slip-up was quite telling, though, and while I don't know where RangerCado stands on the truth chart, I'm pretty sure at this point that you're just scum trying to manipulate the situation to your best advantage. It would help if your perceived meanings of my statements were closer to what was actually said, of course.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Specifically right here. I particularly appreciate your manufacturing the whole "good for town" angle, but I've already spoken on that. If you have some new concerns about what I've said, I'd love to hear them, but I'm kind of tired of restating my points over and over again to someone who is just going to reinterpret them freely for manipulative purposes.

You should be glad, though. You've got me off Shinigami's back. Isn't that what you wanted?
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Griffionday

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #401 on: May 26, 2013, 12:37:55 am »

Vector:
Previously, I didn't find you all that suspicious, but you made one of the slips I often almost make as scum.  So you've jumped a few places on my list.
Fair.



Demdemeh:
In the interest of actual dialog (and because I've already spent two hours trying to find the answers myself); before I answer any of your questions could you please tell me the following:

What is this post of griffinpup's that you consider to have been sorta attacking you on your read of Shinigami, but on further review was pressing you for your reads on Shinigami?
What post do you feel griffinpup copied when he made his post?

As far as I can tell, they don't exist... That is my foundation: not that you "were wrong."  I'm saying you were blatantly OMGUSing, and still are.

It's really convenient that you come back from your hiatus right after my mistake; essentially freeing you from the only pressure that was on you.
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Demdemeh

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #402 on: May 26, 2013, 12:45:57 am »

Now I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing. I quoted the post that I took to be an attack from pup in my response to said attack. You can find his original here. I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about a post he copied as a part of that, because I can't find the part of my most recent post which reference copying at all. Could you quote that specifically for me?

And I came back from my "hiatus" well before your mistake. Weekends don't count, remember? Or are you going to make the same mistake I did right out of the gate?

If you're going to keep digging yourself a hole, you'll need a shovel. Your hands are getting rather dirty.
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Griffionday

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #403 on: May 26, 2013, 01:02:52 am »

Now I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing. I quoted the post that I took to be an attack from pup in my response to said attack. You can find his original here. I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about a post he copied as a part of that, because I can't find the part of my most recent post which reference copying at all. Could you quote that specifically for me?

Yeah that would be this:
I think that I mentioned exactly what I found odd. It wasn’t that he was attacking Shinigami, but that he was attacking ME for attacking Shinigami, and very closely to his own attack.
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Lenglon

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #404 on: May 26, 2013, 03:30:02 am »

Holy... I come back to... this?

Ranger: What the hell? I dont even...

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That claim was suicide you fool. If you're scum, you've singled yourself out so we know who to lynch at Lylo, and I want to get to work finding your partner. If you're telling the truth, there is no way the scum will let you live through the night. from their perspective, killing you is a win/win deal. Ford said it best:
Lenglon:
Captain: final hypothedical. you are mafia. it is night 1. on day 1 a bandwagon was forming on a townie. they claimed cop. do you NK the claimed cop or someone else? if someone else, the following day the cop claims to have investigated a random townie and found them clean. do you fakeclaim jailer?
I kill the cop, duh. If the jailer protects the cop, nobody dies, and aside from learning the game has a jailer, the town learns nothing new, while we get to inspect one person to try to find the jailer. It's a win for me no matter how you look at it.

I wouldn't fakeclaim jailer that early in the game.

Ranger: who here would you least like to have as a scumbuddy?



I'm guessing Ford is going to be gone all weekend, and if that's the case he wont be able to respond to what's happening here with the current deadline, and I want his input (and him to answer some questions) therefore: Extend



finally got some data to work with, lets see if I can make something out of it. I'll assume Ranger is scum for now, and when he flips, one way or another, will be soon enough to see if I'm right. It's time for a re-read, Ranger might have accidentally fingered his partner sometime during the day. or his partner might have fingered himself from how he interacted with Ranger.
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