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[RangerCado]

Vector: ...yeah, that makes way more sense.

Shinigami + Lenglon: Birdy just voted me so his reasons are fresh but please fully restate/refine your cases against me.

[Lenglon]

Lenglon also strikes me as suspicious, but for reasons different from other arguments that have been made. This is more of a mutual distrust issue than anything. Certainly there would be some little nugget from my post to swing me in either direction... I suppose I will ask a question in return... Lenglon, be a bit more detailed on what you think of me. Don't be shy about it.

Your opening post was, as is typical for opening posts, made under little to no pressure whatsoever. your predecessor turned and fled replaced under the mildest of pressure, so I couldn't get a reliable read on him. So I simply skimmed over your opener to look for any obvious mistakes and moved on when I didn't find any. as I said then, new player, old one lurked too much for me to get a read, therefore null. neither scum nor town, and prone to having my read of you change on a hairtrigger.

Lenglon:  I want tho know what you think about Shinigami putting you at the bottom of the scum list.  He called you scummy, but not why.  Do you find this suspicious in any way?  What about your weak-sauce attempt at pressuring Shinigami?  Do you honestly believe that Shini cracks after someone questions him in a matter of semantics?  Do you plan on buddying with him for the rest of the game?  Will you start acting independently eventually?  I ask this because you guys have generally been pressuring the same people.  First Vector, of course, then you both questioned Day, ( I admit that this isn't as apparent as the others, but I still believe that this pertains), then you vote RangerCado right after Shinigami does so.  I'm not necessarily accusing you of BOTH being scum, but I don't want you guys blinded by past relationships when someone brings up a good case on the other.

if you dont mind, i'll handle this in segments.

I want tho know what you think about Shinigami putting you at the bottom of the scum list.  He called you scummy, but not why.  Do you find this suspicious in any way?

You're refering to this I assume:

Lenglon- Scummy but probably suspected less than everyone else (except ford, he is special. See below.) I was thinking of attacking you just to see if you would slip up and look any scummier but you seem less of a concern. Besides, you are good at scumhunting so you can stir up the "civilians". Man, I like using that word in mafia don't I?

In short. Everyone is scummy except Ford who is null. I would say scum ranks are in this order.
Ranger
Pup (position interchangeable with griffy)
Griffy (position interchangeable with pup)
Demdem
Vector
Cheesecake
Lenglon

You're right that he didn't state why I looked scummy in that post, and that was a change from earlier, but I didn't find it suspicious at the time mostly because me being read as scummy seemed like the "in" thing at the time, and it was only a mild change from earlier in any case. as for my position in the rankings, although my placement isn't really explained, everyone else's is. so, process of elimination applies here.

What about your weak-sauce attempt at pressuring Shinigami? Do you honestly believe that Shini cracks after someone questions him in a matter of semantics?

No, I think I was flailing. That total failure of a pressure attempt was one of the many reasons I felt that I had to take a day and chill.

Do you plan on buddying with him for the rest of the game?  Will you start acting independently eventually?  I ask this because you guys have generally been pressuring the same people.  First Vector, of course, then you both questioned Day, ( I admit that this isn't as apparent as the others, but I still believe that this pertains), then you vote RangerCado right after Shinigami does so.  I'm not necessarily accusing you of BOTH being scum, but I don't want you guys blinded by past relationships when someone brings up a good case on the other.

I make up my own opinions, as does shinigami, and as should everyone here. If you or anyone else presents a strong case against him, I have every intention of listening and, after considering the situation for myself and making up my own mind on it, voteing for him if he comes out looking like scum.

Shinigami + Lenglon: Birdy just voted me so his reasons are fresh but please fully restate/refine your cases against me.

You're playing reactively, not proactively. you respond to when other players question you, but dont take initiative on your own. you have been lurking, and lied when questioned about it. You have yet to pressure anyone strongly. You hide your thought processes, making it difficult to check for if you are contradicting yourself. This is why i'm voting for you.
Dem: you have missed several questions asked of you. please answer them.

Ford: what do you think of Day?

Vector: I saw and understood your explanation of why you're staying on the sidelines for now, but how long do you plan to continue this?

[RangerCado]

Lenglon: I've played reactively as it suits my mindset. I'm not a very assertive person so i rarely take the initaitive. I tried to pressure Dem but he disappeared and i've been busy most of today. Explain how i've been hiding my thought processes please.

Won't be posting for the next 3-4 hours as i'm at my grandmas house.

[Griffionday]

Whew... long day at school and probably not even half way done yet.
I'm acutely aware that I've been dead weight the past couple days, I should be better over the weekend (which sadly means others will be gone... *sigh*).

Vector:
Congratulations on the graduation!

Lenglon:

Day: scummy, the exact opposite of shinigami, his heart isn't in his hunting. he isn't taking risks, he isn't trying all that hard.

It's been a long week.  Next week will be longer.  And then I've finals.  I'm sorry that my play hasn't been nearly as sharp as it should be, and as I said I'm painfully aware that I'm essentially dead weight until my schedule lightens a bit (hence why the weekend will be better; and Monday's a holiday as well so I should be able to be active and useful then).  I'm around, and willing to respond to any and all questions people have for me; but school is my top priority at the moment.

[Vector]

Lenglon:

I'm not staying on the sidelines at the moment.  I'm hunting again, but playing maximum pressure all the time is the best way to exhaust the town and ruin them for the late game.

The fact is that most of your walls of text are full of responses to other folks' attacks on you.  It's not like anyone else's per-volume scumhunting is that enormous.  What I'm trying to say is, don't confuse volume with activity.

Vector:
Congratulations on the graduation!

[Lenglon]

Explain how i've been hiding my thought processes please.

I've been looking and have yet to find any real system to your scumhunting. I suppose it could be just me, but I'm having trouble fitting your actions, reads, and questions, into a consistent pattern. There might be a pattern to your actions, but i'm having trouble seeing it. this usually means you're getting extra input from somewhere that I can't see, either you have a different win condition or are in a private conversation with someone. both options imply that you are scum... or that I'm just bad at reading people.
Vector: fair enough, my apologies.

[Vector]

Vector:
Congratulations on the graduation!

Wow, I managed to quote this without responding.  Now I feel pretty stupid.

Thanks, Griffionday!

[Vector]

No worries.

both options imply that you are scum... or that I'm just bad at reading people.

Also, don't softball him.  The latter statement shouldn't be part of your attack.

[Keestram]

I'd like to sign up as a replacement.

[RangerCado]

not nearly as long as i thought.

Lenglon: Does someone need a pattern to be townie? I don't see why a townie couldn't play sporadically, confusing all players to a point where its hard to justify lynching them, or NKing them as they don't seem to be doing anything yet their points are valid. This isn't how i'm playing but do you really need a pattern?

Demdemeh: You come back and make a small post apologising, then disappear for now 4 hours. You didn't answer anyones questions to you, you didn't ask any questions, you've only restated why you think Shinigami is scum. You said this is new to you and you want to get better, so make some posts. Even if its only answering 1 question and giving 1 question, it'd be better than nothing. Your lurking should not be tolerated so please start posting a few other reads, or maybe a couple questions, so that you don't have to be replaced. Why do you continue to lurk, who other than shinigami seems scummy to you, whos your top townie pick, (if its vector, tell us another) and give your opinion on shinigami's CURRENT posts. -rant over-

[Lenglon]

Lenglon: Does someone need a pattern to be townie? I don't see why a townie couldn't play sporadically, confusing all players to a point where its hard to justify lynching them, or NKing them as they don't seem to be doing anything yet their points are valid. This isn't how i'm playing but do you really need a pattern?

such gameplay is defensive, and scummy for the same reason all other forms of defensive gameplay is scummy.

[RangerCado]

Lenglon: Does someone need a pattern to be townie? I don't see why a townie couldn't play sporadically, confusing all players to a point where its hard to justify lynching them, or NKing them as they don't seem to be doing anything yet their points are valid. This isn't how i'm playing but do you really need a pattern?

such gameplay is defensive, and scummy for the same reason all other forms of defensive gameplay is scummy.

It wouldn't neccisarily be defensive play. Why do you think a pattern is needed to be aggresive? And as another refernece, is being careful yet playing defensively? Think about it for a moment. If you play too aggresively, people will start to think your being unhelpful and scum might just kill you to create massive WIFOM.

[RangerCado]

sorry for double post. Take out the yet in my second question. (i need to proof read more thoroughly)

[Griffionday]

Ranger:
WIFOM =/= confusion || chaos. 

Lenglon:

such gameplay is defensive, and scummy for the same reason all other forms of defensive gameplay is scummy.

Why is playing defensively scummy? 

I know Vector already covered this, but I want to know what you took away from that conversation.

Shinigami:

Daygriff- I wont point out them all or anything but you have a tonne of posts that point out flaws of my gameplay even though I had already excused myself for them. A good example is when you accuse me of not scumhunting when I openly said that I would not post anything with weight until late at night. At least two or three times before your post.
Your question-Now that it is the night of monday, you are capable of pointing out lurkers and active lurkers. What are your reads on activity specifically. If they are active lurking, how so? If they are active, are they active in a positive, negative, neutral way or something else.

This is old I know; but the more I think about it the more I see this as odd. 

You vote for me saying that the way that I called you out on flaws in your game-play that you had excuses for was scummy; seems strange to me because I consider part of scum-hunting to be pressing people when you think their excuses are bad.  And then you make things worse by providing for an example something that I DID NOT in any way do.

And then you ask me to do... what exactly?  You're not asking for my reads, you're merely asking me to go and see who I see as being active, and who I see as being lurky.  This is not a bad question necessarily, but I'm wondering why you threw such a softball after voting.

[birdy51]

Birdy: Its strange to me that that is what you find me scummy for. It is true i was trying to see a bit of how much a threat you might be, but asking how much experiance you have is a question both sides can ask for that reason though. It also gives me an idea of what mistakes you might make that can be taken as newbish rather than a scum slip-up. Preferred town role was an RVS question i asked someone else (Pup i believe) at the beginning of the game and thought to use it again as its a very good question to help build a read on someone. As for the question for your reads, its useful to know. I am not the only one in this game to ask a player for their reads, and seeing why you find a player scummy can determine whether i should pursue a certain line of questioning. I have no idea if your mafia or not, and the only way to find that out is to lynch you so your role flips, or inspect you during the night if i were the cop. (a mass game of werewolves is also how i learned about mafia too! I was in a large group who'd just missed our ferry back home so someone taught us how to play for a couple hours. good times)

Sorry to hear about your aunt's funeral. If you do need some time or anything, I would understand. Forgive me though, as I must press the assault regardless...
 
You have some valid reasoning, but you haven't quite convinced me yet. I cannot shake the feeling that I was being sized up by you, which causes me mild discomfort in my lower intestines. You've seemed to want to dig deeper into me with your questions. You even said that you were considering more as well. Getting a good read is one thing, but I feel that you were looking a bit deeper than that.

Thisgut instinct continues to make me very suspicious of you... Especially now that you've applied more pressure upon Demdemeh, someone who already has a significant amount of pressure upon him. Yes, he's lurking and he's admitted to it. But this issue has already been adressed. You claim a bandwagon against you, but then redouble and join the one against him, adding a third vote and tying your current count. This is suspicious. Afterall, he's given some reasoning behind his absense on account of work and getting aclimated to this new enviroment. The Day has been extended, so he has time to adapt and finally answer the questions set before him with the weekend.

In my own personal opinion, I would have stayed my voting hand a bit longer. But you seem to have grown a bit impatient and threw it on him again, which has only served to strengthen the power of my old stink eye. Unless something turns up that makes me change my opinion of Dehmedeh, I plan on keeping shart tabs on you. Be wary...

Your opening post was, as is typical for opening posts, made under little to no pressure whatsoever. your predecessor turned and fled replaced under the mildest of pressure, so I couldn't get a reliable read on him. So I simply skimmed over your opener to look for any obvious mistakes and moved on when I didn't find any. as I said then, new player, old one lurked too much for me to get a read, therefore null. neither scum nor town, and prone to having my read of you change on a hairtrigger.

Fair enough! Your logic is perfectly sound. Not much more to say on that.

I suppose I will ask a question in return... Lenglon, be a bit more detailed on what you think of me. Don't be shy about it.

Birdy, what information do you think you'll get out of this question?

I was honestly a bit suprised that he said there wasn't anything to be taken from my introduction. His tone seemed to be a bit dismissive, which bothered me. However... He's ultimately right. Being new to this forum, I am a wild card. One post isn't really enough to build a solid opinion on me unless I say something absolutely fantastic that warrants further scrutiny.

That... and questions like these can be used to either look for a slip-up or a sign to confirm your opinion on who is who. Or... change opinions.

For instance, I am now going to go out on a limb and say that Lenglon is a townie. He answered the question much too frankly to be a piece of scum. But time will tell if this opinion will change.