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Author Topic: BM XLI: On Wings of Haven -- Scum Victory!  (Read 101563 times)

Griffionday

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #270 on: May 22, 2013, 04:33:17 pm »

Ranger:
Top three scum picks:
Lenglon; fits my picture of noob scum, calling me out on targeting him for something I had pressed Shinigami on. [Link]
Shinigami; Partly here because of his constant buddying with Lenglon; and partly because he keeps pretty much saying it.  I'm to the point where I'm wifoming myself into thinking that he must be town as he would be LESS scummy if he were playing scum.
Captain Ford; He's been far less active than I had hoped he would be... I need to do something about that. (PPE: Oh hey look, it's Ford)


Ford:
You defended Shinigami as town and simultaneously casually alluded that Lenglon was scum a little while ago.[link]

You do the same thing in your most recent post; there are several other points of equality between the two posts as well.  Did the interim between those posts change your opinion of anyone or are you still in pretty much the same state?

Second, as IC, what was the intent of this:
Cheesecake: Let me help you out here. The first thing you need to do is pick somebody, then yell at them in all capital letters, "DIE SCUM", then vote somebody else and demand they raise a case on the first guy you yelled at.
Do you think such humor helps you work as IC or do you think you may have needlessly confused Cheesecake?


Shinigami:
PPE:
Thank you. I didn't even think of that Griffy. Ford is now leaning scum! Great, now everyone is scummy. Thanks for adding to my suspicions -___-
You're welcome

I'm curious how you went from "everyone seems scummy to me" to "I think we're done with this day"?  That seems rather counter-intuitive to me.


Bird51:
Welcome to this game!
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Captain Ford

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #271 on: May 22, 2013, 05:07:57 pm »

Gods yes, a question! This is far less awkward now.

Ford:
You defended Shinigami as town and simultaneously casually alluded that Lenglon was scum a little while ago.[link]

You do the same thing in your most recent post; there are several other points of equality between the two posts as well.  Did the interim between those posts change your opinion of anyone or are you still in pretty much the same state?
Not much has changed, no. The two people I pressed haven't responded at all, so I'm kind of at a dead end there. Again, it's like magic mafia, I just haven't had the time to get much more than surface reads.

What Shinigami was doing when he defended Lenglon reminded me sharply of when I did the same thing for NQT in M&M&H (and then he turned out to be scum) ... and also for Nerjin in VLR (who also turned out to be scum), and also for Alamoes in Roguelike 6 (also scum), and finally, also Zrk2 in Magic Mafia (you guessed it, scum).

In every game I've played where I was town, I've defended scum in pretty much exactly that manner. Something about the way scum react to pressure apparently triggers my maternal instincts. I can't otherwise explain how I have a 5 for 5 track record for defending scum on day 1.

That isn't something I could use in a case against him, though. Only something I'd use as a cue to take a closer look at him. (How would Lenglon even defend himself against that?)

Second, as IC, what was the intent of this:
Cheesecake: Let me help you out here. The first thing you need to do is pick somebody, then yell at them in all capital letters, "DIE SCUM", then vote somebody else and demand they raise a case on the first guy you yelled at.
Do you think such humor helps you work as IC or do you think you may have needlessly confused Cheesecake?
Lightening the mood? He did seem like he could use a humor injection. In retrospect, maybe following it up with a classic "make newbies panic" question wasn't the best idea. Totally threw off the tone.

Straight Answers: I think humor like that can be both instructive while preventing players from getting crushed by the pressure. I think I thoroughly botched it, though. Probably because when I'm writing in short bursts between interruptions at work, it's hard to keep a consistent feel throughout the writing.

Also, I'm ultimately here to have fun, and so I like to inject humor whenever I can do so without being disruptive.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

birdy51

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #272 on: May 22, 2013, 06:18:24 pm »

Greetings!

I figured I would go ahead and say hello real fast, to tell you I do exist.

I'll have the questions adressed to Cheesecake answered, so you will be able to at least stew over them at night. I would have had them earlier, but I was distracted by family matters. Just allow me a bit, and I should have them all answered by the Day ends.
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griffinpup

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #273 on: May 22, 2013, 06:36:51 pm »

extend
Don't' have time to post just this second, but I want to meet buddy before day two.
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Lenglon

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #274 on: May 22, 2013, 06:37:25 pm »

ok, i've cooled my head, and am going to be posting something with actual content in a few hours.

to those questioning me on disappearing. to be blunt, Day was right. I was flailing, I had my facts wrong, I was loosing my temper, and it was showing. I needed to just take a day and chill, not to mull the facts over, but to clear my head and stop thinking about this mafia game, and come back in fresh.

I've skimmed over what was posted in my absence, but considering how out of it I was earlier, I need to do a re-read. also, from the looks of things, Dem might need to be replaced as well, and birdy hasn't been around long enough to be questioned. therefore, Extend
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griffinpup

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #275 on: May 22, 2013, 07:04:02 pm »

extend
Don't' have time to post just this second, but I want to meet buddy before day two.
*Birdy not buddy, sorry.  My auto-correct on my mobile device obviously isn't as good as advertised.  :P
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birdy51

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #276 on: May 22, 2013, 07:16:46 pm »

Hello, hello! This will be my formal introduction.

I am Birdy, Cheesecake's not so tasty replacement. I'll try to answer any RVS questions that were left for him. Please tell me if I missed one, as I want to try to answer them all!

Cheesecake: Which IC would you prefer for a scum buddy? How about non-IC?

Vector. No question or doubt about it. I've only observed her for a short time, but she has a reputation that proceeds her.

As for a non-IC… I will openly admit that I am uncertain. I am not familiar with many of your tactics and gameplay.

Yet, to give some kind of answer, I must say that griffonpup seems like a good fellow to go murdering people off in the night with.  Griffonpup is doing a good job of being discreet, the model of a perfect townie, and in turn, a perfect scumbuddy. Besides, he was the first one to say hello and greet me into the game. That's always a good trait for a murder buddy!

Cheesecake: another hypothedical. It's Day 2, you're mafia. you did the NightKill on Night 1, someone has just claimed Watcher (a power role that lets you see who visited someone else, and who they were visited by, but not what was done). they say they saw you visit the person you NightKilled that night. They also claim that one of the townies visited you. the townie has not responded, but they said ahead of time they would be busy for the next two days IRL. what role do you fakeclaim?

This is a very sticky and dangerous situation to be in. I obviously cannot claim to be the Doctor, due to the unfortunate death of my target.

This leaves the Watcher role as a potential claim, assuming we have no cops or other investigative roles. I would counter him with a fake claim of his own role, on  the grounds that it is much too early for such an important role to be shown to the eyes of the public. After all, what sane investigating player boldly claims that he is the Watcher on Day 2? He is asking to be night killed, leaving us all none the wiser.

On one final note, there would be one claim that would be surefire to work, provided the role is available. The Bus Driver defense. I would claim to be a Bus Driver, stating that I switched places with the dead man, and that I was the target for the Night Kill.

Doing so, I set up a clean lynch case for Mister Townie, with a possible side plot to kill the Watcher later that night. Maybe.

Cheesecake- Have you read any other games. What is your preferred play style.

I will admit my noobiness, and say that I have not extensively looked over the logs of older games. While I am absolutely certain there would be good information and tactics to be gleaned from the exercise, I have always been one to want to try to learn things the hard way. First person experience is invaluable to me.

That said, I do have a play style. I am going to try to do my best and be perfectly honest.  This being my first game, I don't want to try to match the trickery of older players. This will only lead to my untimely death. Rather, I hope that being candid and sincere in my workings will secure some measure of success.  An honest man need not fear questioning.

Cheesecake-  If it was Lynch or Lose, and you and your scum partner were both still alive, what do you think about the option of claiming doctor?  Cop?

I would be hesitant to claim anything that late in the game. However, I would be willing to take the fall in order to make my partner appear valid. I would ask him to fake claim as a Cop, and target me.

From there… We would see how the cards fall.

Cheesecake: Are you scum? Why or why not?

Of course not!  Why?

I'm not the scum, because somebody else is scum! It's logic my dear fellow!



Any other questions for me?
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #277 on: May 22, 2013, 07:41:03 pm »

Extend.

Just attended graduation and finished moving out, am finishing paper, will be celebrating tonight.
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RangerCado

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #278 on: May 22, 2013, 07:50:10 pm »

The days been extended judging from the votes.

Going to make a more substantial post later. Also, Congrats on graduating Vector!
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griffinpup

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #279 on: May 22, 2013, 09:06:45 pm »

Now that I  actually have some time to address stuff, let me start with all the stuff addressed to me in the last few posts...
Pup: If you need to, just take a half hour or so somewhere in your day and read through what everyones posted and try to find some slip-ups. And might as well ask, whos your current suspect and town
That sounds too close to work for my liking  :-\  Ah well, that's no excuse to not do it. 
I can't give an opinion of Demdemeh yet because he hasn't responded to my post.  This is quite unfortunate. (He actually hasn't been on the site for over a day and a half.  Maybe start considering a replacement?  Not sure replacements for being AFK work though, so I'm not sure.) 
I'll answer who is town first, then go onto who I think is scum.
Um... Vector?That was harder then I expected.:o  It's hard to tell who's actually town, but I picked Vecor because she's the only player NOT giving off scumtells.  Vector herself said it best when she said...
As for why I've been moving back a little, I opened the day strong so that you'd be able to see how things should be done, and now I'm working on cleaning up folks' play so that you'll be able to make a good showing for the rest of the game.  Hopefully this cleanup phase will close a bit before deadline, and then I'll be able to go back to being more active.
I can't actually give an honest opinion on who's town or because everyone giving off scumtells can't ALL be scum.  (Unless Tiruin is trolling us, lol)  Vector is also experienced enough not give herself away in any large amount on day one, so I can't be sure at all who's actually town. 
I do have an opinion on who is scum, however. 

Shinigami-  I choose Shinigami because he isn't blatantly bad, like Cheesecake or Demdemeh (No offence), but has been giving off scum tells. He came into the game buddying pretty hard to Lenglon in the beginning, though they did both give explanations for that after being prompted.  That's not where it stopped, though.
Spoiler: Shini's Post (click to show/hide)
In this fairly recent post, he outlined his reads from all the characters.  If you'll notice, he gives an explanation for every one of his reads of us in his short description. Except, of course, Lenglon.  He called him scummy, but then ranks him the second lowest out of everyone?  Especially when he ranks people he read as "slight scum" as more suspicious then decidedly "scummy".  Shinigami actually gave an excuse not to pressure him!  Shinigami, why do you thing Lenglon is scummy but less scummy then, say, everyone else?  Since you never addressed why you thought he was scummy, what about his play makes him scummy?  What response do you have to the fact that, if I'm not mistaken, you have NEVER pressured him? Yet you make excuses to not do so again?  You say that he is less of a concern.  You then rank him to be your lowest concern.  Why wouldn't you be concerned?  Perhaps even though he's scum, you feel safe because you are too.  A definite possibility at this point.  He only pressured you very briefly over an issue of semantics.  In fact he pushed so soft that it looked like someone pulling punches.  Why would he do this?
Next...
Mod also would like to prod Griffinpup on his formatting as most questions are in unlabelled spoilers
Code: [Select]
Which can be labelled like:

[spoiler=This is a spoiler with a name]And inside it are your words[/spoiler]
Um... I have never purposely put spoilers in any post ever?  (Besides this one)  Are you sure this is to me?  If so, I'm quite confused.  If someone could clarify this, that would be great.
I think that's it for questions addressed to me.
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Lenglon

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #280 on: May 22, 2013, 10:47:44 pm »

ok, first things first, my reads:

Shinigami: Town, his simple utter recklessness and total disregard for if his actions look scummy or not is why. no scum would ever act the way he has, drawing tons of unecessary attention and fire, and taking massive risks for litttle to no gain.

Vector: #@%$#@???, I can't get a read on her, this isn't a null read, this is a "wtf am I looking at?" read. She reads to me as unreadable.

Day: scummy, the exact opposite of shinigami, his heart isn't in his hunting. he isn't taking risks, he isn't trying all that hard.

Dem: scummy, lurking, misattributed quote, just overall seemed out of it, even before his current unexplained hiatus.

Ford: Null, not enough interaction to get a good read on him, what liitle i've got has been towny, but there's so little of it...

Pup: Town, take Day, add risk-taking, and hard commitment, and you get pup.

Birdy: Null, new player, and the old one lurked until replaced. there's nothiing to get a read on beyond his "hi, i'm here" post.

Ranger: scummy, spent a long time on the sidelines, still isn't commiting all that much, seems even less agressive than Day. all he's done is not draw attention to hiimself.

Secondly, I'd like to apologize to everyone for my weak showing earlier, and apparently my earlier refusal to address people's non-question concerns was bothersome to many of you. if there are any such concerns you want me to respond to, please go ahead and voice them. I'll answer them as best I can.

I'll see about getting some follow-up questions to ranger in a bit.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

RangerCado

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #281 on: May 22, 2013, 11:14:26 pm »

Pup: ...I'm lost for words. Thats actually a very well made case on Shinigami. The one odd thing though is you didn't switch your vote to him. Why?

Shinigami: addressing these in order.
1. Solid point.
2. I'm not hiding anything. I had nothing to add to it so i said i had nothing to say to it.
3. Agreed
4. Pointless huh. And your the only one saying this. This seems overly harsh and unproductive.
5. Because i agree with peoples reads. Its kind of funny because if i stated my own reasons, which would end up being very similar to what others have said, you'd accuse me of being redundant and unoriginal. You've backed me into a corner with this that i can't leave.
6. True.

As for what you said about ford: You can't get a read on someone from their opinions? How does that make sense? It would seem more likely that it would be the biggest help to creating a read.
Lenglon: Well, i can't give much of an answer to this except that RL has been getting in the way of me playing mafia. This has been a bit of a packed week and with my aunt's funeral tomorrow, i'll be gone for even longer :( . Until you give me some questions thats all i have to say on this.

Okay, I don't think that Lenglon and Shinigami are the scum team. One of them is a definite possibility but if both of them were the Scum IC would probably have been chewing them out for buddying this entire day. going to UNVOTE as leaving my vote on someone whos disappeared doesn't seem prudent.

More after i do a bit of digging, and clear my mind of a few things.
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #282 on: May 22, 2013, 11:29:29 pm »

Is everyone familiar with the phrase "refuge in audacity," or RIA?  It refers to people doing things that seem so likely to get them killed that they "couldn't possibly be scum."

I'm not saying Shinigami is RIAing, but this is something you need to keep an eye on.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Lenglon

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #283 on: May 22, 2013, 11:45:48 pm »

Ranger: ok, first of all, your statement that you haven't had time is a lie. the reason is your posting history. today you made 21 posts. yesterday you made 15 posts. the day before that you made 18 posts. the day before that, was the day that this game started, and you made 4 posts that day. the only time you could reasonably use that excuse would have been on the very first day, May 19.

secondly, although you have been weighing in and listing your reads regularly, you have yet to pick anyone and strongly press them.

thirdly, each post you've made has been essentially minimum-length. this... really isn't that strong of a scumtell for you, because I've read your posting history, and you dont do long posts very often. but it does mean you've put forward very little material for people to weigh in on. or to phrase it differently, given yourself very few opportunities to make mistakes.

these are more concerns than questions to be honest, but I'd like to hear your explanations for what i'm seeing here.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

RangerCado

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Re: BM XLI: Day 1, To Kill a Mockingbird
« Reply #284 on: May 22, 2013, 11:59:03 pm »

Lenglon: 1. And if you go to those they were mostly short silly posts i made around the forum or in Minecraft Mafia. Of which many were made while i was in school, just checking up on things and seeing if i had any questions to answer.

2. I was waiting on Demdemeh, but he's gone MIA. As for pressing someone else, I have literally been having trouble finding questions to ask that aren't either redundant, as i seem to get flak for being redundant, or relevant to whats going on. I hate when i just start drawing a blank on everything.

3. This is mostly me trying to refine the way i post and word things from the disaster i was Day 1 in magic mafia where i made many mistakes and ticked a couple people off.
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