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[Griffionday]

General note:
Most of you probably already know but; our GM is in a different time zone than most of us: check the link in her post to determine when day ends for you.  For those who are in PST with me; the day ends 6 AM Thursday.  We've a fair bit of time and can always extend, this is just a heads up.

griffinpup:

P.S.  Just keep poking with your spear Shinigami, there's no way you're going to take down GriffionDay.   

I just made a fairly long post that included discussing how I view and react to buddying... And you buddy me to see how I react.  I LOVE your sense of style.  My only issue with what I think you're doing is that it would probably be better to have waited a post or two so I'd have more likely not to notice your ploy.

Just to note in case I'm wrong about what you're doing here: I'm assuming your post means you're rooting for me.  That's okay, (probably best to keep it in your head in case you are seen as buddying) but just because you are picking sides doesn't mean you shouldn't be hypercritical of both our cases.  I feel this misjudgment (more than an inherent imbalance in the team powers) is what cost the game to scum IC so often in the past.

But I seriously doubt you needed to be told that.

Shinigami:

-snip-

I don't have time for a full response right now; I'm very sorry. 

I'll get back to you after dance, which will be over in around 3:30 hrs...  In the meantime please respond to my latest post if you get the chance.  And I promise I'll get you at least one more full post before I turn in for the night.

[griffinpup]

griffinpup:

P.S.  Just keep poking with your spear Shinigami, there's no way you're going to take down GriffionDay.   

I just made a fairly long post that included discussing how I view and react to buddying... And you buddy me to see how I react.  I LOVE your sense of style.  My only issue with what I think you're doing is that it would probably be better to have waited a post or two so I'd have more likely not to notice your ploy.

Just to note in case I'm wrong about what you're doing here: I'm assuming your post means you're rooting for me.  That's okay, (probably best to keep it in your head in case you are seen as buddying) but just because you are picking sides doesn't mean you shouldn't be hypercritical of both our cases.  I feel this misjudgment (more than an inherent imbalance in the team powers) is what cost the game to scum IC so often in the past.

But I seriously doubt you needed to be told that.

Wait a post or two?  I waited almost a whole page!  I also couldn't pass up the opportunity that Tiruin's post gave.  Not only could I comment on his great writing, I could buddy up to you using his own writing.

Somehow, you can sense that the soldiers are alive given by the apparent fear in the air. That, and the fact of a Pawn trying to destroy a Rook by swinging his spear at the flighty messenger.

I could make a joke about your name and imply that Shinigami, who you happened to be butting heads with, was of lower value then you.  Pawn < Rook.  Regardless, I thought that you were too vain to see my ploy.  That was my first read.  I did learn valuable things in this encounter though.  You saw this one, but you won't see my next one!

Guys, for your FYI, this will be my last post tonight.  I'm looking forward to reading your guys' responses to the myriad questions hanging around unanswered.

[Captain Ford]

Finally finished my reread. Interesting stuff. This is easily one of the strongest starts I've seen in a BM.

Captain Ford: You say you accidentally defend scum in the early game, which blinds you later. What sort of thing does it take to make you question your current opinions.

Preferably hard evidence, and for that, there's nothing like a roleflip. A particularly strong or persuasive post can change my mind too. Borno did an excellent job at the end of the last BM presenting his case, although at that point I was still undecided.

Shinigami_King: How do you feel about Vector's concentrated drive against Lenglon?

Having trouble forming an opinion on your own, Demdemeh?

This is a pretty slanted question, designed to cast suspicion onto either Vector or Lenglon. It's even scummier when used on one's self, but in this case it looks like you're just trying to play the situation up.


Notes/Reads:
Shinigami is offended because Vector is being unfair, and taking risks to defend someone? Town. Incidentally, from my own experience, this exponentially increases the odds of Lenglon being scum.
Pupgriff raised a strong case on Demdemeh and pulled together some stuff I missed. Is definitely paying attention to small details.
Daygriff ... sounds like Daygriff. Need to spend more time staring blankly at his posts.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OK. I'm back but my thoughts were disturbed. Not by Vector this time but corn. I hate CORN!

I LOVE CORN!

I hate corn syrup. But I love corn by itself. Yum.

And this is where I hit the post button...

[Lenglon]

I hope this answers your question.  Also, you claim to ask about jailkeeper, but the question is really about mafia, and how I would play one.  Why all these questions about mafia?  Is something on your mind?  The next time you want me to explain what I would do in a particular situation with a particular role, try to make up a situation where I have that role.  Note the question that you asked actually gave you next to no details about jailkeepers themselves and was merely an exercise of thought.  It was a bad question for your purpose and didn't answer your original query.

Actually I was mostly trying to point out that Jailer can be used to confirm cop claims, which is something you had never mentioned. I do admit it was a bad question though, and as proven by captain ford's answer one that didn't even serve my original purpose of figuring out where someone would jump in WIFOM apparently. I guess I should have put more thought into the thing. oh, and the whole "is something on your mind?" ?question? vector already asked that, stop wasting space.

Lenglon:

GriffionDay- Trying to be friends with the IC eh? Well would you explain why? There is no reason truly to support her seeing as she isn't really that pressured here. It seems like you just want a future friend to give you a get out of jail card. I am going to agree with ranger here and say what are the chances of both Lenglon and myself were the last townies to both be scum. I can guarantee you that, that is not the case. That of course would require you to take my word for it but seriously. What are the chances. When I finish my homework I will make a nice beutifully long post about this seeing as that is what everyone wants. Until then Ciao~

Shinigami: Is that a confession?

Shinigami: the reason I voted you was simple. that quote assumed that one of us was scum, and I know it's not me. It looked a lot like a slip to me, an accidental confession of being scum.

Desperate to distance yourself?  I ask because you explain your vote as based on Shinigami assuming one of you must be scum, but the section you quoted simply doesn't assume that at all.

the way Shinigami used "Both" assumed that one of us was scum, that was the entire basis for my vote, and i'd been hoping to see some kind of pressure reaction... which didn't happen.
Unvote
today is going so well for me apparently.

Lenglon:  Leaning scummy.  He's (She's?  Oh well.  I'll say he this post.  If I'm wrong, correct me so I get it right forever more.) questioned me repeatedly about the role of jailkeeper, but his questions seem like they're trying to find information about mafia, not what he's actually talking about.  I do think that he also made a mistake over-generalizing a question meant to be specific, but it's hard to tell if this is newb or scum play.  Short of his interaction with Vector, and limited interaction with you, (all of which he DIDN"T initiate), he hasn't pressed anyone yet.  I haven't really pressed anyone yet either, so I can't condemn him for this, but I do think my posts have been more pressing then his.  (Apart from his with Vector, of course.)  His posts directed at Vector did seem, if not completely UMGUS, along those lines.  He over-reacted, plain and simple.  His tendency to not address accusations in statement form, instead of question form, also worries me.  Why wouldn't he want to clear up those accusations?

she, but I try not to be picky
why dont I want to clear those up? because you're quite simply asking me to come begging to you and plead for you to improve your read of me. Get over yourself. I have other things to do, and what time I spend here I want to spend scumhunting, not boosting your ego to try to improve your read.
...
lets see, I could point out cheesecake's lack of activity... which vector is already doing.
I could bug demdem again... which is currently pup's project.
Captain Ford is still reading...
I haven't seen anyone pressure Day very much yet, but...
oh what the hell.
Day:

For me the draw of mafia is mostly the social aspect.  It's an interesting experience as you can't very well expect to win if you come into a game with notions of who must be scum (with the exception of wuba) but on the other hand you have to judge people.  I love the fight to determine who is scum and then to convince everyone else that you have a valid target.  On the other hand I could see being mafia being an interesting challenge, having to keep yourself invisible, while at the same time trying to manipulate other people into agreeing with you...  I could see that being equally as exciting as the hunt.

You dont seem all that excited so far, getting bored?

-snip, this part is addressed to shinigami. link is intact if you want to check-
You: Leaning Scum; with the previous read in mind your actions appear to be buddying Lenglon and providing a smokescreen for him by attacking his primary critic without reason, and then lobbing him a couple softball questions to help him get back on track.  Even if I make the assumption that Lenglon isn't scum; I still see your attack on Vector as suspicious because you actively disrupted someone's scum hunt while accusing them of disrupting yours.  You admit to this being your first time through RVS and feel justified in accusing somone else of playing this part of the game wrong...

You are accusing Shinigami of playing to prejudices and acting like he doesn't know what he's doing, right after acknowledging that he really doesn't know what he's doing. and you're acting like it's a scumtell. you know better than that. please explain this.

[Captain Ford]

How was the graduation?

Oh yeah, I see this was misaddressed to Ranger after all.

It went better than expected. I got some new clothes out of the deal (but no new socks. Man I really need socks. And light bulbs). It was nice to see my family all together again.

Also, mixing this question in with the rest of your questions makes it really feel like buddying. (Usually I put things like these in spoilers with a label like "OOC" or "Off-Topic" to minimize their impact on the game). In the very least, it's a great way to reduce pressure on yourself. Are you worried about how I perceive you, mister Dem?

[Shinigami_King]

Tiruin- vote count, would you kindly?
Here is where I will answer any points you made in your last post Griffion.

Notes on where I see your actions as violating town etiquette:
1:  If someone is applying pressure on someone you don't see as scummy, think about why they are doing so.  Even if you can't see their case give them some time to develop it.  Maybe they saw hints of something that you missed and are applying pressure to see if they can get their target to display it again so they can show the rest of town.  On the other hand maybe they don't really have a case and are just applying pressure to look like they are doing something.  Again by waiting for a bit you can observe them and see if their case develops into something substantial, if it doesn't and they don't back off then they are probably either guilty of tunneling or are scum; in either case pressure is appropriate to get them to rethink their case a bit.
2:  This is something that I personally have major difficulties with but: Just because they have a different play-style than you, doesn't make their play-style wrong.  This is critical to remember, especially for us newer players; being different than we expect doesn't make them scum, being similar to what we consider to be scum makes them scum, and that is very hard to differentiate in the middle of the game.

I actually don't remember hearing this before but I actually like what it has to say. I simply thought it was too soon for an all out push so I intervened and I never really considered the differing play styles and how they affect my perspective of scum. Please refer to my earlier posts to see why I thought Vectors playstyle would be poor for the group, not just poor for my "zen" as some people have come to call it.

Your original post was decent by itself as you presented a simi-reasonable (if stupid, more on that in a bit), but by posting that second bit you wreck any pressure your vote could have had, showing that you really don't care where your vote is.  As town, your vote is a weapon as you can use it to levy pressure on people, as scum your vote is a liability as you will be judged on the strength of your case and if you're not able to defend it you will be outed.  Of course if you can show that "Oh that was just a pressure vote" you're safe, so a weak vote is a natural defense for scum.

I don't see that. I was just putting some icing on the cake, I say any vote applies pressure.

I'm honestly a bit disappointed. 

Part of my scum hunting technique is to engineer situations where scum and town would naturally act differently.  I leave outs in my arguments after a certain amount of pressure to bait scum into grabbing on to them, as town will typically ignore these and try to prove their innocence via explaining their actions as best they can.  Leaving these outs gives me additional information on the type of panic my target is doing: which I hope you can see would be useful. 

What you attacked was not one of these situations.  I made it clear in my post that I saw that the content of what I was saying was borderline buddying, but I felt that this was a rare instance where it would actually help strengthen town by keeping one of our strongest scum-hunters active and engaged rather than standing by and letting her be worn out by your frankly idiotic attack (see above for why it was idiotic).  My question is; are you ACTIVELY trying to weaken the strongest town members (which she has a 7/9 chance of being)?  Because if not; why are you so insistent that everyone play this game exactly as you wish them to, especially those with years more experience than you?

First the buddy buddy part. Buddying is something that I frown upon, if you choose just a select person. I'm all for trying to be friendly to everyone (to an extent of course) but just going up to Vector and saying, "if you scratch my back, you scratch mine" reads as a scummy move to me. Moving on. I apologize for not attacking the point you wanted me to? I don't know how to respond to that properly. I saw something I didn't like and I brought it up. Your post didn't very clearly stare why my "attack" was idiodic because we have a butt-tonne of information on Vector Lenglon and myself. Other than having to defend myself from a multitude of posts I don't really see what went wrong. Please clarify.

Desperate to distance yourself?  I ask because you explain your vote as based on Shinigami assuming one of you must be scum, but the section you quoted simply doesn't assume that at all.

How weak! You are really going all out on me if all you can say to pressure Lenglon is that. Why such a weak attempt?
Moving on I will attempt, key word attempt, to scumhunt. I am tired though and I am lacking a bit in the skills department here but here goes nothing.

For those who choose to check on the game, see White losing by the lack of knights and Black ahead by a Rook and Pawn. The Chessboard is like a ruined city, wherein stone debris of destroyed constructs litter the area--just enough to show the brutality of war on a physical scale.

Taking some flavour as a possible hint, the black rook and pawn would symbolize the two scum, the pawn being vanilla and the rook being the power role. That or perhaps just the stronger player of the two. The text would suggest that I have been poking up the wrong tree and have provoked the black rook. The people I have attacked thus far are Daygriff and Vector. Just some food for thought. You know,

Wow... Your storytelling is really articulate.  I love it!!!

I think I have to agree.
Because I am going to try to find a case on everyone in a short time span don't expect anything grand here. Just some questions and some points I would like to... well... point out.
Daygriff- I wont point out them all or anything but you have a tonne of posts that point out flaws of my gameplay even though I had already excused myself for them. A good example is when you accuse me of not scumhunting when I openly said that I would not post anything with weight until late at night. At least two or three times before your post.
Your question-Now that it is the night of monday, you are capable of pointing out lurkers and active lurkers. What are your reads on activity specifically. If they are active lurking, how so? If they are active, are they active in a positive, negative, neutral way or something else.
Vector- You said that you were waiting for ford. Well he is here now and you are nowhere to be seen. Please post, you were incredibly active at first but you are fading into obscurity.
Here is your question- Who do you know here from meta game. Are they behaving normally or abnormally? How so?
Cheesecake- Lurking... Lurking... Lurking. I can't say anything else because you know. You seem to be lurking. This game requires a lot of time so I tend to expect to much from people but you are MIA and "that is, no good"- sonic the hedgehog.
your question- I want reads. (sorry Vector, I notice you are looking for the same.) Not just simple reads, full, thorough, in depth reads of everyone here. Almost everyone has posted a quantity of content so you should have lots to work with here.
And I need to go, I will post something continuing this post tomorrow but I'm turning in for the night now.

I got the people I wanted most but I will find time for everyone else as well. For future me, when I want to remember who I missed

-Lenglon
-RangerCado
-Demdemeh
-PupGriff
-CaptainFord

I think that is everyone. Good night.

[RangerCado]

I'm going to bed but i have to address this. "Would you kindly" ... Really!?!? REALLY!?!? Ugh, i hate bioshocks story. (not really, it just freaks me out a lot)

[Vector]

Vector- You said that you were waiting for ford. Well he is here now and you are nowhere to be seen. Please post, you were incredibly active at first but you are fading into obscurity.
Here is your question- Who do you know here from meta game. Are they behaving normally or abnormally? How so?

He hasn't finished his reread.  I'm writing a 15-page essay.  Bug off.  This weekend was my big attempt to get folks talking; unfortunately it seems to have failed to function, O Judgmental One.  I'll go kick around some stuff once folks have done a touch more posting.

I know Ford, RangerCado, and Griffionday.  I'm waiting on Ford; both GriffionDay and RangerCado have been acting about normal and townish, but it's not like I've played more than one game with each (and I was scum in that game, so I wasn't all that interested in gathering data).

I don't see that. I was just putting some icing on the cake, I say any vote applies pressure.

False.  "[Vote XYZ], I'm just gonna put my vote here for RVS " does not apply any meaningful amount of pressure, especially not to anyone with any sort of psychological shielding.  Playing town involves learning to crack scum's psychology in half, and a mere vote doesn't do that.

Your post didn't very clearly stare why my "attack" was idiodic because we have a butt-tonne of information on Vector Lenglon and myself.

Your attack was idiotic because what it showed us was mostly your psychological weaknesses, rather than anything about me.  If I were scum, you would have bought me a chance to pretty much mope around for the rest of the early game, act put-upon, and drag most of the town into lynching you for voting based on hurt feelings rather than logic.  It's go something like this: "Why is he so scared of aggressive playstyles?  Does he have something to hide?  Why is he chainsawing Lenglon?  He's just buddying and white-knighting her, and not playing any attention to anything else that's going on, or trying to figure out her alignment.  Scummy!  Scummy as hell!"

After that, I'd go after the people who had most willingly ridden the bandwagon.  And I'd look incredibly pro-town doing all that, too.

. . . Your attack was also idiotic because for some reason you seem to think a person who has played for four years doesn't know the first damn thing about being pro-town.  I played in the first Beginner's Mafia.  You've played, what, one game?  You may be good, and if you're scum then you may be able to beat me, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily know much about technique.  Call that big-headed if you like, but no, I'm not going to sit here saying "Ooh, of course you know everything I do!  Let me pat your hand."

Daygriff- I wont point out them all or anything but you have a tonne of posts that point out flaws of my gameplay even though I had already excused myself for them. A good example is when you accuse me of not scumhunting when I openly said that I would not post anything with weight until late at night. At least two or three times before your post.
Your question-Now that it is the night of monday, you are capable of pointing out lurkers and active lurkers. What are your reads on activity specifically. If they are active lurking, how so? If they are active, are they active in a positive, negative, neutral way or something else.

You sure seem to OMGUS a lot.

[Tiruin]

Vote standings:

• RangerCado(0) -
• Griffionday(1) - Shinigami_King
• Lenglon(0) -
• Cheesecake(1) - Vector
• griffinpup(0) -
• Demdemeh(2) - griffinpup, Captain Ford
• Shinigami_King(2) - Demdemeh, Griffionday
• Vector(0) -
• Captain Ford(0) -
• Not Voting(3) - Cheesecake, RangerCado, Lenglon

Day 1 has begun and will end at May 23, 2013 [Thursday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker!


"...It's been five minutes. Your move."
"Correction: I have moved since five of your time-standards ago."
"Well you said nothing!"
"I only speak in response, or when your king is in...Check."
"Alright, fine. I see that corner-move. Pawn D6xE7"
"Your move is invalid."
"What? No it isn't."

A shrill whistle was heard from the chessboard. The White Queenside Bishop was pointing at his King, who seemed pretty distraught judging by the pout on his kingly face. A Pawn was putting its best intimidation face as it leveled its spear at his majesty's chest, very reluctantly.

"...I hate you."

Somehow, you can sense that the soldiers are alive given by the apparent fear in the air. That, and the fact of a Pawn trying to destroy a Rook by swinging his spear at the flighty messenger.

I could make a joke about your name and imply that Shinigami, who you happened to be butting heads with, was of lower value then you.  Pawn < Rook.  Regardless, I thought that you were too vain to see my ploy.  That was my first read.  I did learn valuable things in this encounter though.  You saw this one, but you won't see my next one!

Guys, for your FYI, this will be my last post tonight.  I'm looking forward to reading your guys' responses to the myriad questions hanging around unanswered.

TBH...I don't know where you started, nor how its all related to everyone else (...There's a Pawn here? I'm vain? I saw something?). O_o

Tiruin- vote count, would you kindly?

*check* It's better to bold 'Votecount' but that was pretty obvious ;P

General note:
Most of you probably already know but; our GM is in a different time zone than most of us: check the link in her post to determine when day ends for you.  For those who are in PST with me; the day ends 6 AM Thursday.  We've a fair bit of time and can always extend, this is just a heads up.

Yep. If you'd note the timer I'm linking, it points to Manila--our Capital (GMT/UTC +8) so there's your basis. I would've linked numerous other common area-times people are playing at but have no idea how to...


Daygriff?...Oh.

[Griffionday]

Shinigami:

I am only attacking those who posted over the weekend. It proved they were on the forum and because it was the weekend they had no obligation to post. To post a little bit is like someone saying "Hey, I'm here! I don't really care about what is going on but I will side with the leading team without adding anything. Welp, guess it's time to go now" That's why I have been calling out active lurking.

Okay "calling out active lurking" could refer to one or some combination of three posts:  187, 184, or 177.  Meaning you called some combination of Cheesecake, Demdemeh, Ranger and me out on active lurking:

Spoiler:  Definition of term (click to show/hide)

Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance).

Which none of us have displayed (You could make a case for a display of lurking; but you can't just slap on the word "active" to make your case read as stronger).
So, no; you haven't been calling people out on active lurking, you've just been increasing the signal to noise ratio in the game.

-spoiler containing my post-
There ya go. First answer, week RVS questions are better than nothing. And by attacking Vector I was doing something that could help later in the game.
Second. I just finished having a nice long talk with her and we were both tired. The questions I then asked were in fact related, and were decent questions.
Third. Yes, I guess. I did care and still do. I add certain things like "Ciao" "eh" "ya" and "I guess" so that I appear human. There shouldn't be a problem with that.
Fourth. RVS is just something that I feel should be done. Random questions that might actually lead to something. I like the concept.
And that's all I'm going to address from that post. Moving on~

A few things:
One - You never addressed why you completely missed this post; or at least why you whined about me not posting reasons for voting you when my post was sitting right there.

First answer, week RVS questions are better than nothing.

Not really.  Weak RVS questions give scum a chance to get their footing in the game and get in the swing of answering questions as if the pressure attached was invalid. 

And by attacking Vector I was doing something that could help later in the game.

I fail to see how your buddying could help you later in the game... unless you're scum.

The questions I then asked were in fact related, and were decent questions.

I assume this is related to my comment about finding things to prod people about?  I didn't mean ask people for their reads: I meant find something in what they posted that you disagree with and hound them about it.

I'm all for trying to be friendly to everyone (to an extent of course) but just going up to Vector and saying, "if you scratch my back, you scratch mine" reads as a scummy move to me.

Uh huh... because Vector is going to give me deferential treatment because I stepped in to back her?  Not to sound patronizing, but I have FAR to much respect for her as a player to think she would do something like that.  I stepped in as a happy Vector is a more interesting Vector to learn from, and she seemed to be trending toward being an unhappy Vector.

Moving on. I apologize for not attacking the point you wanted me to? I don't know how to respond to that properly. I saw something I didn't like and I brought it up.

I was mostly bemoaning the fact that I have yet to be able to test this theory on someone I'm reading as scum, and so can't be sure it's a valid theory yet.  It did allow me to read Ranger as town in Magic Mafia when he came clean about lying, but I've not had the luck to try it on scum yet.

Your post didn't very clearly stare why my "attack" was idiodic because we have a butt-tonne of information on Vector Lenglon and myself. Other than having to defend myself from a multitude of posts I don't really see what went wrong. Please clarify.

See Vector's post for the most part.  I also consider it to be idiotic as a town play as you needlessly drew Vector and I into questioning you: wasting all of our time.

Desperate to distance yourself?  I ask because you explain your vote as based on Shinigami assuming one of you must be scum, but the section you quoted simply doesn't assume that at all.

How weak! You are really going all out on me if all you can say to pressure Lenglon is that. Why such a weak attempt?

Because I'm busy developing another read right now.

Daygriff- I wont point out them all or anything but you have a tonne of posts that point out flaws of my gameplay even though I had already excused myself for them. A good example is when you accuse me of not scumhunting when I openly said that I would not post anything with weight until late at night. At least two or three times before your post.

Excusing yourself clears you to play like scum?  I was unaware of this.

Oh, and the specific example you cite?  Complete bullshit.  You post saying that you won't post anything substantial until 6 here.  I only posted one post directed toward you in that interval, in which I do not accuse you of not scumhunting during that period. 

It's late and WAY past my bedtime.  I'll try to get to your question tomorrow.

griffionpup:

Wait a post or two?  I waited almost a whole page!

I meant a post or two by me so my attention had clearly left the scene, but I agree with it being an excellent use of flavor.

Regardless, I thought that you were too vain to see my ploy.  That was my first read.  I did learn valuable things in this encounter though.  You saw this one, but you won't see my next one!

"Vain"?  I'm hurt.  You aren't wrong about me being completely full of myself though.

Spoiler: FYI (click to show/hide)

Tiruin is a she.

Lenglon:

You dont seem all that excited so far, getting bored?

I assume you're referring to my attempt to cut down the number or random excited posts I make compared to magic mafia.  Yeah, that caused problems that I want to fix (seeing 16 pages they have to read to get back up to speed seems to turn off some players).

-snip-
You: Leaning Scum; with the previous read in mind your actions appear to be buddying Lenglon and providing a smokescreen for him by attacking his primary critic without reason, and then lobbing him a couple softball questions to help him get back on track.  Even if I make the assumption that Lenglon isn't scum; I still see your attack on Vector as suspicious because you actively disrupted someone's scum hunt while accusing them of disrupting yours.  You admit to this being your first time through RVS and feel justified in accusing somone else of playing this part of the game wrong...

You are accusing Shinigami of playing to prejudices and acting like he doesn't know what he's doing, right after acknowledging that he really doesn't know what he's doing. and you're acting like it's a scumtell. you know better than that. please explain this.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as "admitting he doesn't know what he's doing."  When I said that "you admit to this being your first time" I'm saying it's presumptuous of him to assume that he knows better how to play RVS than Vector; who has been around for a long time.  As I don't think he's THAT much of an idiot, I have to assume that he's trying to throw confusion into the mix: which is scummy.

[Cheesecake]

To Vector:

I'm guessing you want my views. Well, it looks like everyone's piling on Shinigami, by skimming through all the posts and I might as well vote for Shingami_King. No offense man (or woman), just wanna get a vote in so I do something.

I know this is horrible playing, and I'm sorry.

[griffinpup]

Wow, cheesecake.  You just went from lurky to completely scummy in four sentences.  You openly admit to bandwagoning, then admit that it's a terrible move, but still make it?  Talking yourself down only makes you look like you're trying to appear harmless, a scum tell.  I don't have much Time to post, but I figures it'd be good to get this up.

[Lenglon]

Cheesecake

To Vector:

I'm guessing you want my views. Well, it looks like everyone's piling on Shinigami, by skimming through all the posts and I might as well vote for Shingami_King. No offense man (or woman), just wanna get a vote in so I do something.

I know this is horrible playing, and I'm sorry.

please tell me this is a joke. we need you to be active, not to make an admitted bandwagon vote with no justification! get in here and do something, this was possibly the single scummiest possible response you could have made to Vector.
Day:

Lenglon:

You dont seem all that excited so far, getting bored?

I assume you're referring to my attempt to cut down the number or random excited posts I make compared to magic mafia.  Yeah, that caused problems that I want to fix (seeing 16 pages they have to read to get back up to speed seems to turn off some players).

It's interesting that you removed the quote from this section. did you want to avoid having people look at the bit about "excitement of the hunt", something that you hadn't been displaying?

really. what i'm talking about is partally the way you were questioning me. as you yourself pointed out, i never really felt like i needed to focus very much on your questions. why? becuase they were repeats of vector's. After that I started looking over the rest of your posts and I found something interesting. You've been keeping a very centered position, not taking many if any risks and not going to any real extremes. Vector for contrast commited and pushed... hard. You've been active, and your posts have contained real content, but you never seem driven or Excited. It really does remind me of the very centered way deathsword posted. nothing scummy, no real pressure, never over-commiting to anything. you're making sure every case you make has very firm ground to stand on.

why are you being so careful to never get caught off balance? why the caution? It's not exactly a scum play, but it's certainly one that prevents you from being attacked effectively... a defensive style, in other words.

[Cheesecake]

Okay. I'm sorry. That was a stupid move. Unvote. I seriously don't know who to vote for. I guess I ask questions. So, could you tell me what kind of questions to ask please? Thanks.

[RangerCado]

Cheesecake: If your going to vote someone, give reasons. If you can't give reasons for a vote, give questions to the voted. Almost all votes hold some power so use it to gain information. At the end of the day, you don't have to vote.

Shinigami: Meant to address this earlier. Deathsword never actually used his IC voice to influence you guys last game. He made comments that an IC might make, but never used Brackets {} () to show that they were as unbiased as possible. You all ended up tricking yourselves with that.

Demdemeh: At the start of the day you seemed to be leaning town for me, until this started. You've been confusing whos who twice now, Edited a quote without out stating so until called out on it, and have done little in hunting players. What are your current reads, why should you not be lynched, and why do you keep confusing players? (Rant over)

Now, my current list of reads:

Cheesecake- Null. seems to be fumbling around, not sure what to do.

Shinigami- Small lean scum. butting heads with Vector over playstyles, but not doing anything that could be considered Scummy except for constant accusations of "Active Lurking"

Demdemeh- Scum. Hasn't done much to contribute or hunt, keeps confusing whos saying what, edited a quote without giving a reason or pointing out what he edited. Weak vote on Shinigami which he has done almost nothing with.

Ford- Null. Hes still trying to catch up, what he has posted gives me no indication of alignment.

Lenglon- Lean scum. Reacting badly under pressure, accusing Vector of not broadening her questions to others despite doing that herself at one point. Acting quite the opposite from how she did last game.

DayGriff- Lean town. Doing what he usually does, nothing scummy coming from him and is addressing everything someone asks him clearly.

PupGriff- Null. Haven't looked into his posts enough to justify a read.

Vector- Lean town. Using her usual hunting methods, hasn't dropped any scum tells, and is doing what i've seen her do in other games as Town.

Will be back in a few hours, ciao!