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[RangerCado]

Vector: You weren't asking many people questions which Lenglon himself is starting to do, which was his part of his case on you. Thats the only thing i agree with him on and, given your reasoning, its not scummy anyway.

[Lenglon]

why didn't I respond to accusations without a question attached? because it seems like a waste of time to bother.
Lenglon looks at the timestamps
...
oh.
well, there goes my grand theory, pffft.
Unvote
ok then.

Griffinpup:

Griffon(griffonpup): What would your preferred role be as Town? How about mafia?

I would prefer jailkeeper in Town for the increased versatility.  The ability to be a doctor, and block roles is pretty useful.  As mafia, godfather would be my pick.  (at least I think it's called godfather.  The one that makes you look town.)  I would like that because it lets you get cleared by the cop, which means you don't have to kill him as early.  LET HIM SPREAD HIS LIES!!! I WILL REIGN VICTORIOUS! This is kinda the attitude I have in that situation.

I noticed here that you seem to have put a lot more thought into this from a mafia viewpoint, why is that?

[Vector]

Okay, good.  Thank you for the clarification.

[Griffionday]

Quick post as I need to get to school to work on a lab report:

Lenglon:
Repeats?  Really?

Yes, we both pointed out that you over thought an answer to a question that should have been simple.  My beef though is that you answered the wrong question altogether.

My first point I want you to address is based on a completely different reading of what Shinigami said:

Who will you use it in this RVS?

Vector seems to have read this as "Who will you use it on in this RVS?" while I read it as "How will you use it during this RVS".  You answered "You are scum; how will you play this game?".  Why did you broaden the question rather than just answer his question as it is?

You missed entirely my point that you were attempting to act town rather than scum hunt.

Ranger:

Griff: What are your thoughts on Lenglon and Shinigami given your known information from the last BM to now? (specifically play styles)

You seem to forget that I was not in the BM after the first night, and neither of them were playing at that time, so this is really my first time playing with them.  From what I saw both of them have potential to be strong players, Lenglon certainly seemed to be playing a better game than he is right now; however, I don't think he ever came under fire in the previous game so I don't know how he reacts to pressure.  Shinigami has made one post this game, and while he seems promising I can really give you a read on his play style.

Vector:
Re-reading your posts to answer Lenglon, and noticed I missed one of your points, my bad.

Shinigami:
Press the hell out of the IC, as it's safe to assume the IC will press the scummy player.

No, it isn't.  The IC has a responsibility to teach you how to play, and that doesn't always mean leading by example and doing the dirty work.

So I shouldn't assume that the IC won't just forfeit the game to teach me a lesson?  I think you agree that the lesson wouldn't really be worth learning as it's "not everyone who you think is scum is scum." which I learned my first mislynch.

I stand by that as the first action I would take though, as the question specifically mentions that I don't have a read on the IC.  If the IC satisfies me I would then start on the scummy player to see if the tells were noob or scum; if I'm reasonably satisfied that they are noob tells and not obvious scum then I would try to get the IC lynched.

[griffinpup]

Griffinpup: Although being godfather would confuse the cop, acting scummy in play would still get his vote on you. A cop would only fully trust his results if the godfather was already dead, or if the result was: Target is Mafia. Godfather can only give you a bit of wiggle room, not a free pass.

Um... OK?  I agree with you?  Of course you still have to play good.  That's a given.

why didn't I respond to accusations without a question attached? because it seems like a waste of time to bother.
Lenglon looks at the timestamps
...
oh.
well, there goes my grand theory, pffft.
Unvote
ok then.

Griffinpup:

Griffon(griffonpup): What would your preferred role be as Town? How about mafia?

I would prefer jailkeeper in Town for the increased versatility.  The ability to be a doctor, and block roles is pretty useful.  As mafia, godfather would be my pick.  (at least I think it's called godfather.  The one that makes you look town.)  I would like that because it lets you get cleared by the cop, which means you don't have to kill him as early.  LET HIM SPREAD HIS LIES!!! I WILL REIGN VICTORIOUS! This is kinda the attitude I have in that situation.

I noticed here that you seem to have put a lot more thought into this from a mafia viewpoint, why is that?

What more do you want me to say about a jail keeper?  HAH FOOLS, JUST TRY TO GET OUT OF YOUR BEDROOMS!  There.  It's even now.

On a more serious note, I spent what time was deemed necessary to explain my choices.  There's very little you can say about a jail keeper that I didn't say.  A mafia godfather, on the other hand, is slightly more in depth.

Also, you're one to talk.  As my fellow Griffion pointed out, you had 5 out of 7 of your questions be about mafia.  It seems like you're nervous not knowing to play mafia very well, and are subtly asking for advise.  How about it, scum?  Notice how I ended with a question.  Perhaps you'll be bothered.  :-)

[Demdemeh]

I apologize for not having posted earlier; I only just got home from an all-day shopping trip.

So here we go.

You are scum and your scumbuddy is alive. Everyone is pointing their FOS at you. How do you get out of your sticky situation?

Throw him under the bus! But seriously, I look for possible scumtells from a townie; suspicious style questions, lurking, evasion, poor responses under pressure. Then I do what I can to sway town to vote for him. Why? Looking for advice, Shinigami?

hypothedical number three. it is 5-man-LYLO. you're mafia A. townie B is voting for mafia C. Townie D is voting mafia C. Townie E is voting townie B. mafia C is voting townie B. there are no hammers. the case on mafia C is a strong one. the case on townie B is moderate, but not weak. do you bus mafia C or vote townie B?

Bus mafia C and nightkill Townie E. Now the case for B is much stronger.

You were fairly quiet for the pre-game, and you've not been very active in the sub-forum (to the best of my knowledge).  What about the game interests you?  Do you think that playing as scum or town provides the more exciting challenge?

I won’t claim to have been very active on the forums as a whole, honestly. Mostly, on the DF Modding and the other forum games boards. When I first saw Mafia, I was intimidated, but I think that the social and investigative aspects interest me the most. I think that scum and town provide their own unique challenges, and they’re both equally exciting, but different. Scum has teamwork, but also has to deceive a large number of people into thinking that they’re normal. Townies don’t know enough, but have to find a way to establish unity in an environment of uncertainty.

If you were a jail keeper would you generally try to block the mafia power roles, save your Team power roles, (making their roles worthless), or save normal Townies?  I realize this would always depend on the situation you are in at the moment, but I'd like your general thoughts on the matter.

Assuming I have enough knowledge to make an appropriate decision, I would think it most important to block Mafia power roles. Time is of the essence, and while it is risky to have townie power roles out in the open, their abilities may only be used so many times before the end of the game, and even one time can be the difference that helps find the last scum.

How much experiance do you have playing mafia?

Practically none. I was in a MUD many years ago which had something similar set up, but very little actual social aspects went on as most people chose to randomly select people and get them lynched just to get to the rewards more quickly. So, we’d go through a bunch of games, but they were worthless as far as actual play goes.



Lenglon: Vector is pushing you pretty hard. Is there a good reason you can give for how evasive you've been with your answers?

Vector: You're going after Lenglon very aggressively. Can you articulate exactly what it is that has you so confident and suspicious about him?

RangerCado: You asked me how experienced I am at mafia. I have seen your name in a couple of games around here, at least as an onlooker or replacement. What kind of learning curve would you suggest that this game has?

Griffionday: I want to know your answers to the same questions you asked me.

Cheesecake: I've spoken up. Where are you?

griffinpup: What do you feel the relative values are of the following roles: Cop, Jailer, Doctor, Godfather? If you were allowed to choose which one you could be, which would you choose, and what would be your general strategy for using the powers?

Shinigami_King: How do you feel about Vector's concentrated drive against Lenglon?

[griffinpup]

griffinpup: What do you feel the relative values are of the following roles: Cop, Jailer, Doctor, Godfather? If you were allowed to choose which one you could be, which would you choose, and what would be your general strategy for using the powers?
A jail keeper is better then a doctor, but a cops value depends on the situation, and isn't easily compared to either the doctor or the jail keeper.  A godfather is a mafia role, therefore also hard to compare with the others.  I do think that a mafia godfather is the most powerful role a GOOD mafia can have. My favorite town role is jail keeper.  The jail keeper, however, is very situation specific.  I couldn't tell you a strategy for playing jail keeper unless you gave me a situation.

I talk about it in this post too.

Griffon(griffonpup): What would your preferred role be as Town? How about mafia?

I would prefer jailkeeper in Town for the increased versatility.  The ability to be a doctor, and block roles is pretty useful.  As mafia, godfather would be my pick.  (at least I think it's called godfather.  The one that makes you look town.)  I would like that because it lets you get cleared by the cop, which means you don't have to kill him as early.  LET HIM SPREAD HIS LIES!!! I WILL REIGN VICTORIOUS! This is kinda the attitude I have in that situation.

[Shinigami_King]

Everyone shut up?

Seriously?
SERIOUSLY?
I'm sorry but "seriously". Unvote, Vector You my dear, are getting on my nerves. That should answer this

Shinigami_King: How do you feel about Vector's concentrated drive against Lenglon?

and this

And whats your take on the Vector, Lenglon... situation for lack of a better term?

I'm a bit ticked "for lack of a better term". Vector. You haven't been asking around like the average bear. You are TUNNELING! Scum! You are throwing some mighty pester balls in all the wrong directions. I can't say anything spectacular for Lengon's case except that she is doing what is natural. I would react the same! This probably looks like an overreaction so I will clear up some of the fog covering your eyes that when you said early game (I think it was the post that you claimed you were not going to use your IC voice) that you had a habit of "acting scummy" that is a scumtell. Even if you aren't scum I would be happy to lynch you specifically due to your play style. I get bored easily and your continuous long posts saying the same thing over and over.. I can't think straight. I want to be able to think! The weight of your posts are lost on me because of your... YOU-ness. Seriously, I hate the term with a passion but, take a chill pill.
I forget who asked but I am terrible with formatting. So that is why there are not any dates or names on my quotes. What I tend to do is just use the quote feature and then copy/paste what I want to quote.
Griffionday- thank you, every time that typo showed up I cringed. It was supposed to be how not who. Sorry for the inconvenience everyone.

Demdemeh- Why the vote? Well whatever; no I'm not looking for advice though I think I will write that bus one down for later...

Cado- Lenglon as I can see so far is acting natural. Everyone here is human SURPRISE! Also, prevalent.. *cough* isn't, an understatement.

Vector- What were the questions that you asked? I missed them I guess... you know, in your long repetitive posts and whatnot. Also, Lenglon answered in more detail than was necessary. Woop-dee-doo~ We get more info that way and honestly, who cares? It was one of the first questions of the game written down just for fun and humor more than anything else and you are ranting on about it like it is some big thing. No. No it is really not. Also, how am I acting strange? I am confused.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now then- would the real scum buddies please stand up, please stand up, please stand up~
I will post a random question just for fun in the next post but I need to work on it first. Don't go too crazy with the posts wile I'm gone.

[Vector]

Vector: You're going after Lenglon very aggressively. Can you articulate exactly what it is that has you so confident and suspicious about him?

I'm not prepared to give a full case or anything like that, but I'll tell you a few things.

First of all, she answered a different question that that which was asked, so I voted her, acting more confident than I was in order to scare her a little.  Well, it worked!  She started acting very scared, with her only argument that she "always blows things out of proportion."  So I pressed her, and she went in for an OMGUS.  Her attempts to make cases on me fell apart and were logically inconsistent, and now that she no longer has a leg to stand on she's disappeared.  This is classically scummy behavior, but part of me worries that I'm just misreading someone --so I've been broadening my view a little bit.

Second of all, the best way to kick up activity and get reactions is to make a shitstorm in the right place (i.e. someone of whom you're suspicious, at a level which folks can still back down from once you've gotten what you need to know).  So I'm doing that.  Scum can hide behind fights like this sometimes, but I'm not going to let them do that.  Everyone is going to learn a lot about everyone else, and the rest of the game should be a lot easier.

I'm sorry but "seriously". Unvote, Vector You my dear, are getting on my nerves. That should answer this

Shinigami_King: How do you feel about Vector's concentrated drive against Lenglon?

and this

And whats your take on the Vector, Lenglon... situation for lack of a better term?

I'm a bit ticked "for lack of a better term". Vector. You haven't been asking around like the average bear. You are TUNNELING! Scum! You are throwing some mighty pester balls in all the wrong directions. I can't say anything spectacular for Lengon's case except that she is doing what is natural. I would react the same! This probably looks like an overreaction so I will clear up some of the fog covering your eyes that when you said early game (I think it was the post that you claimed you were not going to use your IC voice) that you had a habit of "acting scummy" that is a scumtell. Even if you aren't scum I would be happy to lynch you specifically due to your play style. I get bored easily and your continuous long posts saying the same thing over and over.. I can't think straight. I want to be able to think! The weight of your posts are lost on me because of your... YOU-ness. Seriously, I hate the term with a passion but, take a chill pill.

Recorded for posterity--Shinigami_King wants the IC lynched because she's annoying.

I said that I had a habit of acting scummy in other games, because it got better results, and that I would not be using those techniques here.  Please explain to me how that's relevant to this game.

Please also explain to me why you're certain of Lenglon's alignment.

I forget who asked but I am terrible with formatting. So that is why there are not any dates or names on my quotes. What I tend to do is just use the quote feature and then copy/paste what I want to quote.

That was me.  You may want to work on that.

Also, Lenglon answered in more detail than was necessary.  Woop-dee-doo~ We get more info that way and honestly, who cares? It was one of the first questions of the game written down just for fun and humor more than anything else and you are ranting on about it like it is some big thing. No. No it is really not.

Why are you defending her?

[Vector]

Missed this.

I think I may not have paid quite enough attention to the scenario to which you were responding.  What I'm trying to tell you is that assuming that ICs will do the work of grilling over the newbies for you is bad.  We can't catch everything or do a good job all the time.

[griffinpup]

unvote
Shinigami, your post made it clear that you were upset, and very unclear on the why.  I don't understand the actual complaint.  People asking about your opinion?  A townie wouldn't be distressed by that.  Or maybe the discussion between Vector and Lenglon.  I admit it was drawn out, built on both parties.  Yet you only defend one... Interesting.  You also complain about repetition, which both of them did, yet again, notice the pattern of only defending one person.  You pretend to offer an opinion, and in the same breath admit to not even reading all the posts, or at least paying attention to them.  And the way I saw it, the conversation was done, before you brought it back from the grave.  For someone who hates repetition, that behavior seems extra interesting...  Are you trying to shift the topic of conversation away from potentially dangerous territory?  Are you trying to defend your scum buddy?  Are you, Shinigami_King' seriously suggesting that we lynch someone that you openly admitted might not be scum, purely because you don't like their play style?  How is that in any way what townies are supposed to do, you scum.

[Shinigami_King]

That question that I promised.. I don't know how long it is going to take me but it will come... eventually. Maybe it will be done by day two? I don't know. It's all mathy and it requires a ton of calculations.
Vector- yes I am defending her because I feel like it's kind of suffocating to be attacked like this. It violating the mind space. It doesn't feel right, especially for such minuscule errors. I'm pretty sure I said this already but I'll say it again anyway. I can't speak for Lenglon. Lenglon could verry well be one of the scum but wouldn't that be convenient for you? It is too early to really tell that she is scum and you are putting unfair pressure on her. Pressure others too. That way you will be able to make it so they stop hiding as this giant argument goes on. "Vote the IC for being annoying" HELL YES! If your hunt is getting in everyone else's way then you deserve to be voted out. I don't care if you are an IC or a town! You are just screwing around and not helping in a truly beneficial way. You are acting as if your single, itty bitty head is greater than all of ours put together. It is offensive and ticks me off. Speak to us as equals, smarten up! Then I will listen to what you say when you stop freaking T-U-N-N-E-L-I-N-G!
Vector- what do you think you are doing? Are you so bussy putting pressure on a random civilian that you forget about yourself. I asked you two questions.

• How have I been behaving in a strange manner?
• What were the said questions I missed.

Also a post note because I just saw your post griffin. I'll try to answer as eloquently as possible.
I thought I made it clear why I was upset though I was typing quickly (something that I don't normally do) so might have skipped something in my head. As I said in this post, the reason I am upset and the reason I am being one sided in this discussion is that I hate vectors play style. I already said that I can't think straight with this ongoing pressure. Period. Whether it is to me or someone else I feel it is an invasive attack that is unfair. Everyone also seems to be teaming up with vector so Lenglon needed some support. I also didn't drag it back from the grave. It never died. It was going to keep going for quite a while longer.
Sorry I'll continue this post later. I need to eat.

[Demdemeh]

Lenglon could verry well be one of the scum but wouldn't that be convenient for you?

I may not be Vector, or qualified to speak for her, but being correct about who the scum is first thing would be more than just convenient, I should think... unless she is a scumbuddy, too. But, of course, in the metagame, is bussing on day one ever a successful strategy? WIFOM territory, methinks..

On the other hand, your point is very good on other being able to hide while this argument is going on, SK. Why is it so hard to think with this kind of pressure? That's what Mafia is, right? And the entire point of the RVS, from what little I've seen, is to apply pressure to people and see how they react. So, with that observation in play, can you, Shinigami_King, let us know why you choose to play a game which has the potential to disrupt your thinking so strongly? Or is it simply the "Bible of Scumhunting" style of play that Vector is using which upsets you? "If you're suspicious, push... if they move, push harder," right?

So what do you feel is the best strategy for scumhunting?

[griffinpup]

I'll quickly post where it ended for you, then read the whole thing over again, to see of I missed anything. 

why didn't I respond to accusations without a question attached? because it seems like a waste of time to bother.
Lenglon looks at the timestamps
...
oh.
well, there goes my grand theory, pffft.
Unvote
ok then.

Griffinpup:

Griffon(griffonpup): What would your preferred role be as Town? How about mafia?

I would prefer jailkeeper in Town for the increased versatility.  The ability to be a doctor, and block roles is pretty useful.  As mafia, godfather would be my pick.  (at least I think it's called godfather.  The one that makes you look town.)  I would like that because it lets you get cleared by the cop, which means you don't have to kill him as early.  LET HIM SPREAD HIS LIES!!! I WILL REIGN VICTORIOUS! This is kinda the attitude I have in that situation.

I noticed here that you seem to have put a lot more thought into this from a mafia viewpoint, why is that?

This post followed by ...

Okay, good.  Thank you for the clarification.

I this is why I thought it was ended.  Regardless, thank you for explaining your point of view to me.  Your second post was far better written, and illuminating.

Back in a bit with answers.

[Vector]

Frick, I missed this post.  I need to think some things over.

Okay, good.  Thank you for the clarification.

This was in response to RangerCado.