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[Erendir]

Not being able to overlap zones kinda sucks. Office/Dining Room combo is no longer a thing - at least not including all the items in the room anyhow. You can make it 1x1 I guess.

There's a few things like that.

"Unlike Stockpiles, multiple Zones can overlap." - says the in-game tutorial.

Like what, for example, I'm genuinely curious. From the top of my head, I only remember removing of the pet-passable door option (for performance reasons IIRC).

You know how in regular DF everyone does hauling?

All jobs are now like that. You can specify someone to do something specific and say that only they are going to do it, but by default everyone does everything.
I don't necessarily mind that part tbh - it makes starting the fort a lot faster. And then you can start making things more efficient later.

But that's not "dumbing down", is it?

On top of that it sounds like there was a considerable dumbing down of gameplay elements.

Like what, for example, I'm genuinely curious. From the top of my head, I only remember removing of the pet-passable door option (for performance reasons IIRC).

Military.

I honestly don't know what exactly I can't do now with the military that I would be able *and wanted* to do previously.

[Bumber]

I honestly don't know what exactly I can't do now with the military that I would be able *and wanted* to do previously.

Assign ammo (hunters,) civilian alerts, select targets for kill orders from a list.

[thefinn]

"Unlike Stockpiles, multiple Zones can overlap." - says the in-game tutorial.

But that's not "dumbing down", is it?

Yeah seems to be BS about the overlapping zones - I couldn't get mine to work at least.

And no I don't think the new job system is dumbing down. It's simply more of a fix.

Lots of the game has had what I'd consider fixes. There are just some missing elements that I don't really want to live without.

For instance when you make a job in the job manager - you can now change the number of items in the job run - which you couldn't do before - you could change the total number of Items you wanted, but not the number for that particular run of the job. You used to have to delete the job and make a new one. (I think that was a DFHack issue? I could be wrong there) Stuff like that is fixed.

[frightlever]

Well so far it doesn't look like the Steam version is an answer to anyone's prayers.
No DFHack, no Therapist, no purchase from me.
On top of that it sounds like there was a considerable dumbing down of gameplay elements.
Seems like the need for LNP is not going away anytime soon.

That being said, if you need to pass on the torch, you need to pass on the torch.
It has been a long time and a lot of work and thank you so very much for making this game much more accessible to so many people!

I'm loving the Steam version. There are a few essential things missing (not even counting Adventure mode, which I never used but I realise is important to many people)  like logs, but I'm surprised how complete it is. I was also a big user of LNP and miss the Therapist. I miss DFHack less so as it was QOL bordering on outright cheats. Not being able to mine a seam is definitely painful but I wouldn't let it put me off playing the Steam version and its near-coherent interface.

DF has had automine built in for a while. Not the same exact automine as DF Hack, but it definitely works.

If interested, here is a video of quill18 showing off a bit of how it works in the steam version: https://youtu.be/s3RHuCV7Rqs?t=287

Thank you so much! No idea if that was available in the versions I played (probably about 2019 or 2018 last time I struck the ground) but I've forgotten so much it hardly matters. Cheers, man!

[MrNewVegas]

I don't know how you can say that. I came back after playing it to say 90% of what I initially made the Lazy Newb Pack to do has been made obsolete by the Steam version.

-Easily add graphics: No longer needed.
-Easily change graphics: No longer needed (see modding)
-Easily change settings without digging for the init files: No longer needed
-Utilities: New work assignment system and integrated mineral auto-mine from DFHack aims to fill the job of 90% of the tools I found necessary. Though I could see in the future several utilities still having some usefulness,
-Mods, removing aquifers, alternative graphics, etc: Workshop mod integration, and a mod-menu in-game now takes care of this.

The labor system has a complete overhaul with click-to-assign jobs, and less need to fiddle with it. I don't think its perfect and I'd like to see some tweaks on adding custom work orders and to be able to enable specific obscure jobs to specific dwarves. But it makes Therapist no longer the necessity it used to be.
Also it seems like Tarn is continuing to work on and improve these UI interactions.

These things would all be true if you could play dwarf fortress for free on steam, but you can't. This is one of the problems with the steam workshop, it tends to suck all the air out of the independent modding scene, and DF had an amazingly rich scene (or, it did, until everyone stopped working on the tools because DF went dark for nearly 3 years). I still think there's merit in maintaining it for the classic version, just for the easy switching between graphics/tilesets if nothing else.

Of course, I don't know how much effort that is and clearly everyone is doing this for free - but if there isn't much to be done anymore then clearly it's not as difficult to keep it up to date. It would be a real shame for DF to go from completely free to having the steam release be slightly more than optional. Real shame the depot got nuked too, that makes steam even more attractive.

[Lurker Z]

Two issues between r8 and r11 I noticed. My concern is that these are intentional for some reason I can't understand, even if to me they seem detrimental:
* When I use the filtering option in Legends Mode, I can't see the letters I'm writing. Why? I can forget where I left off while searching a name and then I have to start over. I can't see if I typed the wrong letter. Why would you hide what I'm typing?
* This one is more complex and much much older. Until now, in every version I used, I couldn't open the same instance of the same exe from a single instance of the launcher. When I tried to open two instances of Dwarf Fortress, it gives me the message that the program is already running. When I click yes, the message disappears for a fraction of a second and then appears again. I can click yes as many times as I want, it won't open another instance. This is true at least for Legends Viewer as well.
I had bypassed this by right clicking the launcher, then clicked this:

It was clunky, but it worked.
When I right click the r11 launcher, it no longer shows that pop-up. Why? Thankfully, I can open another instance of the launcher from the folder, but again. Why? These are not improvements XD

I don't know how you can say that. I came back after playing it to say 90% of what I initially made the Lazy Newb Pack to do has been made obsolete by the Steam version.

-Easily add graphics: No longer needed.
-Easily change graphics: No longer needed (see modding)
-Easily change settings without digging for the init files: No longer needed
-Utilities: New work assignment system and integrated mineral auto-mine from DFHack aims to fill the job of 90% of the tools I found necessary. Though I could see in the future several utilities still having some usefulness,
-Mods, removing aquifers, alternative graphics, etc: Workshop mod integration, and a mod-menu in-game now takes care of this.

The labor system has a complete overhaul with click-to-assign jobs, and less need to fiddle with it. I don't think its perfect and I'd like to see some tweaks on adding custom work orders and to be able to enable specific obscure jobs to specific dwarves. But it makes Therapist no longer the necessity it used to be.
Also it seems like Tarn is continuing to work on and improve these UI interactions.

Seconding others who replied, I feel strongly that LNP is still needed and probably always needed. A lot of the options in LNP are either not available in the Steam version, some people might want to contribute but not by buying from Steam, we don't know when or how much what's in the Steam version will be implemented in the free, "raw" version etc. If you're still working on this, I wish you all well and hope this continues to be updated.


Edit: Upon a further look over my post, I noticed that the first part sounds harsher than it was intended. I'll leave it as it is because it explains well enough my points and I don't know how to make it sound less harsh. I've also come to the theory that the first issue is of DFHack, so somebody should probably take it to them (I'm not sure I am going to, though it still bothers me). Further observations: the filter when selecting a creature through the statue/masonry workshop continues to show what I type.

The second one seems to be a legitimate bug, because as a result of the menu not appearing when right-clicking, the close button does not appear either, which I see no reason for it to be intended by the developer. To expand on my second point, what I would ideally want is to open multiple instances of the same exe (dwarf fortress, legends viewer, legends browser etc.) from a single launcher. If this is not possible, at the least revert/remove the bug that no longer shows the icon to duplicate the launcher.

[lethosor]

I can practically guarantee that neither of those issues were intentional. Bugs happen. Nobody is out to get you.

Could you provide a screenshot of the filter in legends mode that you're referring to? I want to understand if it's a DF or DFHack feature.

[Lurker Z]

I'm not saying that. I'm just assuming there are people who don't think like me, and thus have different ideas about what's useful or not. I admit it is an assumption and it may be wrong.

Again, I didn't mean to appear harsh, I simply react as such sometimes even if I do not feel the emotions that appear to be conveyed in the text.

I've discovered the problem with the "hidden text". The [DFHack Launcher] covers the text. I've written ABCDE and a lot of Fs before the Fs in the image appeared.


In fact, here's a better image. I started from A, though I could have missed a letter on account of, ya know, not seeing what I type.



Another thing to point, that I made the comparison from r8 to r11 because I made that transition directly so I don't know at what point between the versions the changes occurred.

[lethosor]

Oh, you are using DFHack r7, then. If you upgrade to DFHack r8, the overlay appears in a different location and is more configurable. I'm not sure if the pack you're using has a new version with DFHack r8 yet - if you are using PE's pack from http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126076.0 then it does not currently, but you could upgrade DFHack manually if you want.

[Lurker Z]

Ok, thanks. As long as I know it's a known issue and fixed as you say, I'll just wait for the next version of LNP.

[lethosor]

...and I was on my phone and missed the fact that you were asking in the thread for the pack you're using. Sorry about that!

I don't know for sure if PeridexisErrant plans to release another version again - see:

Traditionally [old superstition with some basis in fact!] this kind of update would be immediately followed by a DF release, and another round of frantic community patching by all of the many many people who make this possible... and who knows when the Steam release might be?  (not me - I truly don't have any inside info)  When it does though, I'm expecting to "retire": the Steam edition should help beginners appreciate DF better than anything I can cobble together, and that's always been my motivation for this pack.

[Lurker Z]

I'm keeping my hopes up. See:

-snip-

Seconding others who replied, I feel strongly that LNP is still needed and probably always needed. A lot of the options in LNP are either not available in the Steam version, some people might want to contribute but not by buying from Steam, we don't know when or how much what's in the Steam version will be implemented in the free, "raw" version etc. If you're still working on this, I wish you all well and hope this continues to be updated.

[MrNewVegas]

I'm keeping my hopes up. See:

Seconding others who replied, I feel strongly that LNP is still needed and probably always needed. A lot of the options in LNP are either not available in the Steam version, some people might want to contribute but not by buying from Steam, we don't know when or how much what's in the Steam version will be implemented in the free, "raw" version etc. If you're still working on this, I wish you all well and hope this continues to be updated.

The ease at which I can add different tileset fonts to a graphics set surely cannot be better replicated than in the LNP, and for that reason I think it's worth keeping around, in addition to all the other little things it does.

[ldog]

So I got around to updating to r11 and noticed a couple little things.
Some deprecated fixes have been removed from dfhack but are still called in config files.
fix/fat-dwarves for instance, which is being ran from onLoad_gfx_Vettlingr.init of all places, along with several other fixes and tweaks which, while they are good worthy tweaks that I run myself, I am curious why they are being ran from there at all? The other tilesets init files only have "twbt unit_transparency 1" and that's it (other than the Dungeonset).

Also fix/diplomats and fix/merchants are gone so "Enhanced Gameplay" can be removed from PyLNP.
fix/feeding-timers too (but I think I had an old config copied over)
https://docs.dfhack.org/en/0.47.05-r8/docs/NEWS.html?highlight=fix%2F#id6

[RetiredNavyVet]

I believe it was Tarn and Zack's intention to return to this branch of DF once the premium version has run its course.  So, hopefully LNP will live on!