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Author Topic: PeridexisErrant's DF Starter Pack  (Read 4185443 times)

Snaake

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Ask here - I maintain the pack, but the GUI guts is other people.  As I understand it, the GUI writes the files in the graphics folder over the corresponding files in use, and then optionally does the same to saved regions.  In recent versions of the GUI, it also 'remembers' the way each of the GUI-changeable init options were set and restores their state after overwriting the init files (note that some options are silently changed, this is sometimes annoying but also covers the changes to point to the correct tileset). 

Regarding raw mods... this makes changing graphics harder, because many graphics packs use altered raws that point to different tiles - so you can't just copy them into each folder.  Some graphics are raw-compatible - for example, Spacefox (and maybe Ironhand?) are based on Phoebus raws, so some you can just copy.  I'm pretty sure there are actual utilities designed for people modding that make this kind of thing easier, but I've never needed them... so I'll just point you here.

When I tell LNP to install a tileset/update savegames, what exactly does it actually do during those commands?
When installing graphics, the GUI will delete and replace the entire DwarfFortress/data/art folder, replace init.txt, d_init.txt and colors.txt in the DwarfFortress/data/init folder, delete the DwarfFortress/raw/graphics folder and copy/replace the contents of the tileset raw folder on top of the DwarfFortress/raw folder (including sub directorys).

Updating save games will delete the DwarfFortress\data\save\region*\raw\graphics folder and copy/replace the contents of the DwarfFortress/raw folder on top of the DwarfFortress\data\save\region*\raw folder (including sub directorys).

[where region* refers to every folder in the save directory, except the 'current' folder.]

As for preserving GUI settings when changing graphics, after replacing init.txt and d_init.txt, the GUI will modify the new files to match the settings currently displayed on the GUI.

It just seems to me that especially since the GUI remembers the GUI-changeable settings, it should also be able to not change anything else than absolutely necessary, i.e. the 4 font options, GRAPHICS:YES/NO, and the tile settings (pillar, sky, tracks...).

The same goes for graphics tilesets (i.e. the ones with creature tile characters, I don't know if it's also for just the no-graphics tilesets): assuming each creature has exactly one CREATURE_TILE tag (and a quick ctrl-f with creature_ocean_new.txt confirms this for that file, at least), why overwrite all the raws when you could just a script changing that one tag? Something like the following, using pseudocode:

Code: [Select]
string current_creature
array locations
get locations of string "CREATURE:"
i=1

do
    at location i, store string between "[CREATURE:" and next "]" in current_creature
    find string "[CREATURE_TILE:'" after location 1
    take character between "[CREATURE_TILE:'" and "']" and replace with graphics_set_creature_tile(current_creature)
    i=i+1
while i < size(locations)
Doesn't masterwork already do some script replacement stuff? Of course it's highly possible that Meph just has multiple sets of the raws stored, and has tried to keep divide so them that each separately changeable portion of masterwork is in it's own raw files. Hm, the graphics sets may require significant work from tileset makers though, so I guess that's somewhat wishful thinking though...

I'm sorry if I seem whiny, but after my recent frustration I just feel that at least the inits wouldn't need to be overwritten, since one could just do a simpler "replace SETTING1:whatever_the_old_value_is with SETTING1:value_for_this_new_graphics_set" kind of script for the stuff you do need to change. Installing a graphics pack can also change at least one GUI-changeable setting, truetype fonts (which is interesting, because it can actually be toggled on/off while in-game with F12, too). The truetype fonts I understand though, but why change stuff like the NICKNAME settings? Anyway, you could add a warning/notice/explanation about the overwriting behavior and exactly which files are overwritten, in a readme file at least?

I'd be happy to discuss this with the actual GUI people (not that my coding expertise would be that helpful...), but is there an actual separate thread for it/who are they? Couldn't find a thread with a search or two in the utilities forum, and I doubt they're going to notice if I just randomly make a new thread there (someone else who can help might, but it still seems like it would be a pretty hit-or-miss kind of attempt).


Other than the above complaints, thanks for the great work with PELNP/PEDFSP/whatever the acronym is. ;) It's really handy having all the bugfixes already installed/in dfhack.init, all the utilities collected in one place etc.


P.S. I guess I should consider writing a script for my own changes, to do the specific small changes I want with a doubleclick. Might actually just barely be withing my coding/regexp skills...
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PeridexisErrant

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@SeelenJägerTee - the reactions weren't deliberately removed.  In fact, I had no idea they were there in the first place... it should probably make me more nervous that there are whole sections of the pack that I have no idea about, but that's just how it goes when this is a spare-time thing. 

@Snaake - here's the development thread (which I linked earlier), and here's the source code (which is in the contents list).  Go crazy!
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I maintain the DF Starter Pack - over a million downloads and still counting!
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SeelenJägerTee

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Oi this may be important.
If I remember correctly there was also a hotfix in the files that made cartillage and hoofs and nails heal, so your poor dwarfs and animals wouldn't die to a scratched to nail.

Yep if I look at the tissue_template_default.txt
there is for example this piece of code
Code: [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HOOF_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:hoof:NP]
[STRUCTURAL]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:HOOF]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:2]
[HEALING_RATE:1000] added by Igfig
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[SETTABLE] added by Igfig
[SPLINTABLE] added by Igfig
Where you see the line    "[HEALING_RATE:1000]   added by Igfig" this is to save the poor buggers.
I honestly don't know why it isn't in there for horn and cartillage.
It's been half a year since playing this game last time but I think there was sth. that dwarfs would die to injured cartillage and nails and somesuch stuff as it would never heal and get infected at some point.
Perhaps someone more wise than me can say sth. about this.

Oh PS: and I think there was sth. with making body materials inflammable so that undead wouldn't be fireproof anymore.
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PeridexisErrant

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Possible reason:  since graphics packs all come with their own raws (to specify which tile to use for units, etc) it's probably small mods that the graphics people use. 

I'm not going to try to standardise this; way too much work for small changes. 
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SeelenJägerTee

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Hmmm I think Nope.
If you look into the DF folder in the LNP just as downloaded those changes are already missing. So it's not that they are overwritten by application of graphics pack. And it was LNP default a few versions earlier, so im definitely sure it's not because of graphics packs.
(Btw those changes are in files that are probably not needed by graphics packs (entity_default) so there should be no need to copy THOSE over.)

I just wanted to let you know that those changes were introduced into LNP way back then for a purpose, as a bugfix (never healing hoofs for example), or major convenience upgrade (milling reactions).

Igfig was last active two days ago, perhaps it could pay off if you just send him a pm and ask him about that stuff. He probably can tell you in more detail why he did this and how important that stuff is.
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PeridexisErrant

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Yep, I get what the mods do - but I don't have the time to track down exactly what's changed at the moment, let alone set up a consistent set of tweaks for all the various options.  If anyone does a detailed analysis I'd love to hear it and could implement specific suggestions, but again I'm kinda busy for the next few months.
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I maintain the DF Starter Pack - over a million downloads and still counting!
 Donations here.

SeelenJägerTee

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Forget everything I said.
The earliest LNP.zip I have on this machine is r33 and there those Igfig additions don't exist either as a default.
I could have sworn those were LNP defaults.
So where the heck did this come from? I could have sworn those were LNP bugfixes. Has anyone else a clue?

And if this is not LNP where the heck did I get those files? Normally I archive everything I use and there is nothing in my DF folder but the various LNP releases.

PS: reactivated my old machine there is LNP 15 and still no such changes. I guess I must have copied over my old raws over and over again to a point where I lost track of when I/Urist/HFS changed them.
So just consider this a false alarm - sorry about that. :-[
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PeridexisErrant

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It's not completely false alarm - I know Ironhand includes a bunch of tweaks to rock material properties and I assume other stuff too.
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 Donations here.

daveralph1234

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Oi this may be important.
If I remember correctly there was also a hotfix in the files that made cartillage and hoofs and nails heal, so your poor dwarfs and animals wouldn't die to a scratched to nail.

Yep if I look at the tissue_template_default.txt
there is for example this piece of code
Code: [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HOOF_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:hoof:NP]
[STRUCTURAL]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:HOOF]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:2]
[HEALING_RATE:1000] added by Igfig
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[SETTABLE] added by Igfig
[SPLINTABLE] added by Igfig
Where you see the line    "[HEALING_RATE:1000]   added by Igfig" this is to save the poor buggers.
I honestly don't know why it isn't in there for horn and cartillage.
It's been half a year since playing this game last time but I think there was sth. that dwarfs would die to injured cartillage and nails and somesuch stuff as it would never heal and get infected at some point.
Perhaps someone more wise than me can say sth. about this.

Oh PS: and I think there was sth. with making body materials inflammable so that undead wouldn't be fireproof anymore.
So where the heck did this come from? I could have sworn those were LNP bugfixes. Has anyone else a clue?

These bugfixes are part of the Modest Mod maintained by Igfig.

Yep, I get what the mods do - but I don't have the time to track down exactly what's changed at the moment, let alone set up a consistent set of tweaks for all the various options.  If anyone does a detailed analysis I'd love to hear it and could implement specific suggestions, but again I'm kinda busy for the next few months.

Something similar (combining Modest Mod with LNP) was done a while ago by Meph, however it hasen't been updated in a long time and the GUI and utilities included in the package are very out of date.

PeridexisErrant

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Ah, nice. Note that you can install the raws from a mod into this pack, it's just that you then can't change graphics packs unless those are also switched for a compatible set.
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Aristion

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My sound sense is not working now but it is checked and i am telling it to run manualy.
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PeridexisErrant

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My sound sense is not working now but it is checked and i am telling it to run manualy.

I can't diagnose the problem without significantly more information - does a window open?  do sounds ever play? is it working for a while then crashing?  has the soundpack downloaded?
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PeridexisErrant

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The pack has updated to r53!

New features are basically an updated set of Quickfort blueprints, plus better management of user-created files (blueprints, legends, .dfmap files for visualisers, etc).  From now on, all of that should go in the User Generated Content folder and I've set up symlinks so the the utilities think that they're under 'LNP/utilities/whatever/subfolder' - here's hoping it works for everyone!

Changelog: 
 - updated Quickfort plans to the new edition of the community archive, then updated to v2.1 - /u/Spfifle is awesome
 - added symlink from "Legends Viewer" folder to "User Generated Content" - just click link for legends
 - now using symlinks: default location for user quickfort blueprints and .dfmap files (for Overseer) is in the User content folder, other locations must be copied to a new install manually (from versions after r53 only).  NB: symlinks may not work on Windows XP, please consider upgrading urgently; old methods (manual navigation) will continue to work
 - upgraded the "copy data to new install" script to handle the new locations (it'll also work to move from old to new)
 - updated the "move .dfmaps" script in the DF folder; goes to new folder and also gives short output if nothing is found
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I maintain the DF Starter Pack - over a million downloads and still counting!
 Donations here.

Aristion

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My sound sense is not working now but it is checked and i am telling it to run manualy.

I can't diagnose the problem without significantly more information - does a window open?  do sounds ever play? is it working for a while then crashing?  has the soundpack downloaded?

It has worked before. Now it won't start up. The secondary screen pops up then closes down and that's it for sound sense.
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I kept imagining this guy go "By Armok, not the dead roaches! Oh gods the hamsters oh the dwarfmanity!"
Devotes several hours a day making vampires an endangered species.

DeusMortem

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The pack has updated to r53!

New features are basically an updated set of Quickfort blueprints, plus better management of user-created files (blueprints, legends, .dfmap files for visualisers, etc).  From now on, all of that should go in the User Generated Content folder and I've set up symlinks so the the utilities think that they're under 'LNP/utilities/whatever/subfolder' - here's hoping it works for everyone!

Changelog: 
 - updated Quickfort plans to the new edition of the community archive, then updated to v2.1 - /u/Spfifle is awesome
 - added symlink from "Legends Viewer" folder to "User Generated Content" - just click link for legends
 - now using symlinks: default location for user quickfort blueprints and .dfmap files (for Overseer) is in the User content folder, other locations must be copied to a new install manually (from versions after r53 only).  NB: symlinks may not work on Windows XP, please consider upgrading urgently; old methods (manual navigation) will continue to work
 - upgraded the "copy data to new install" script to handle the new locations (it'll also work to move from old to new)
 - updated the "move .dfmaps" script in the DF folder; goes to new folder and also gives short output if nothing is found

interesting your releases are getting smaller ^^ thanks for such a great pack used it now since r42 and it helped me alot.

Now i do have a few things u can totally ignore if u like:
the In-game macros got crazy slow since r52 i can type faster than they play (and yes i still use them instead of quickfort)
thought i d mention it dunno if its a bug

than i was wondering if you could maybe make a kinda "patch-pack" aswell with new releases where u just put in the changed data i usually play around a lot with macros keybindings aso. and once a while with the raws so its always a lot of work to update from one version to the next. inserting the changed data only would make it a lot easier for me.

aswell http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117954.msg5093277#msg5093277 is kinda great too specially since i have an old mashine to play on ^^' is there a simple way to merge your two great ideas?
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