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[Sirus]

It wasn't strong anthropomorphization, assuming we mean the same thing here. It wasn't like, say, The Great Mouse Detective or even like Loony Tunes.

[Vattic]

Personally I think it was high quality anime films being taken seriously by respected critics and the like that helped anime fandom go mainstream. If the likes of Ebert are taking it seriously more people will give it a go. The problem I see with furries going mainstream by the same route as anime fandom is that there isn't any media specifically associated with furries (unless I am mistaken). While anything anime in style influences people's opinions of anime fandom things with anthropomorphic animals aren't automatically going to influence people's opinion of furries.

There's quite a lot of high quality and critically acclaimed furry media, but it doesn't embrace the label the way the anime industry did. Anime had the benefit of being tied quite closely with a very particular industry that had an incentive to hang together and work on their image. Furry has Maus and Digger, Watership Down and Redwall, TMNT and Swat Cats, Loony Toons and Darkwing Duck. It's got a strong, historic tradition with both critical and mainstream appeal, but it doesn't have an industry dedicated to it, unless you count the kids animation industry, who've no interest in associating with those other, more adult and critically-oriented elements. Anime, both trash and high concept, is still anime, and you're still part of the industry, but in the world of furry you're very much on your own. I mean, yeah, you have that strong cultural backdrop to build on, but there's no "furry industry", or at least no industry willing to take on the label, despite many studios and authors and illustrators putting out work that builds on the anthropomorphic traditions in our culture that are far, far from niche.

Which was pretty much my point. I like plenty of things with anthropomorphic animals in them from games to films, but wouldn't consider myself a furry, while I like enough anime to consider myself an anime fan (admittedly a fan of animation in general).

When looking through the catalogue she did complain that there wasn't any "girly" sets on the market. While you could argue that her desire was illegitimate and the result of the sexist state of toys I'd find it difficult to deny her access to similar toys

It isn't that. By all means I can picture "girly" legos.

It is that instead of marketing legos with girly themes they are marketing girly legos.

Mind you as a child I had a toy collection and the one thing you had trouble getting as a child are female toys (just female characters). So I stole my sisters

Thinking back I'm kind of surprised nobody ever gave me grief for owning a Barbie doll. My dad added it to me and my brother's toy collection to go with the Action Man stuff (totally not reliving his childhood through us ). She had cropped hair, a full suit of camo gear, and kicked as much arse as action man did.

Ooh, I remember some legos that had a more girly theme to them. It was called... Paradise or something. It was a whole bunch of beach resort themed legos. Mind you that was mid 90's so might be a while ago.

Edit: Was close, it was called "Paradisa".

I remember seeing those sets and finding out they weren't available in my country at the time, would have got some for my sister otherwise.

[Leafsnail]

The thing is that "anime", while kindof arbitrary, does at least have a pretty distinct style and a clear geographical link.  "Furry" media on the other hand is just anything that happens to contain vaguely anthropomorphic animals.  I really do not see how it is any more meaningful a label than, say, "Hatty" (refers to any work in which most of the characters wear hats).

[GlyphGryph]

Which was pretty much my point. I like plenty of things with anthropomorphic animals in them from games to films, but wouldn't consider myself a furry, while I like enough anime to consider myself an anime fan (admittedly a fan of animation in general).

While personally, despite liking some Anime, I'm far more likely to consider myself a furry fan than an anime fan.

The thing is that "anime", while kindof arbitrary, does at least have a pretty distinct style and a clear geographical link.  "Furry" media on the other hand is just anything that happens to contain vaguely anthropomorphic animals.  I really do not see how it is any more meaningful a label than, say, "Hatty" (refers to any work in which most of the characters wear hats).

IF you really don't understand the cultural paradigms and impulses that anthropomorphism draws from, that's fine, but I think it's hyperbole to say it's as arbitrary as 'hats'. It's probably closer to "steampunk" - it carries a lot more cultural baggage than hats do, and has an overall style that many people find appealing. And it's got a lot stronger cultural legacy. I suppose one could argue that steampunk isn't a meaningful label either, of course.

[Scoops Novel]

On the basis that I'll find it increasingly irritating anyone says they're a furry and doesn't say why, and given that i view this (at least, the anthropomorphized animal elements, outside of the sexual elements which i realize are not necessarily by any means choice) as roughly as much of an example of selective reasoning as religion, I'll only be involved when people are discussing the conceits themselves. If any wish to read into that, that's what should be read.

[Leafsnail]

Steampunk isn't a meaningful label either.  But it at least denotes a certain kind of science fiction, which brings with it some genre conventions.  You can't really say the same for "furry" - literally all it tells you is that there are talking animals/animal people in the work.

[penguinofhonor]

But it at least denotes a certain kind of science fiction

Haha, not with half the steampunk people I've met. There are apparently a significant number of steampunk settings that are just Victorian + goggles. Actual steam stuff is apparently not necessary.

[Loud Whispers]

It can be - it usually isn't. Furry is essentially "humans with animal traits" or, less commonly, "animals with human traits" - anthropomorphism.

Anthropomorphism is strictly about animals, deities and objects being given human attributes.

Furries who say they identify with anthropomorphic animals are saying they are identifying with animals with human characteristics.

But it at least denotes a certain kind of science fiction

Haha, not with half the steampunk people I've met. There are apparently a significant number of steampunk settings that are just Victorian + goggles. Actual steam stuff is apparently not necessary.

Victorian era = age of the steamship, stream train, steam vehicle...

[Leafsnail]

See "not a meaningful label"

[GlyphGryph]

What do you mean be "meaningful", anyway? I honestly don't know. Is "anime" really even meaningful? With the rise of non-Japanese anime, it really seems to be little more than an art style now, and that doesn't really seem like a "meaningful" label for classifying media, does it? In fact, is geographic origin actually meaningful either? At least, it seems no more meaningful than "furry" or "steampunk". "Spirited Away" has essentially nothing in common with Sailor Moon - hell, I'd argue the art styles aren't even all that similar. How meaningful can the label really be? What similarities does Hyouka! share with Dragon Ball Z?

Ultimately, it really just sounds like you're saying "I don't think your interest/hobby is worthwhile or worth discussing" which is, quite frankly, kind of rude and pointless.

[penguinofhonor]

Victorian era = age of the steamship, stream train, steam vehicle...

It's official. There exist Steampunk settings with less steam power than the actual Victorian era.

I think that's what "not a meaningful label" means.

[Loud Whispers]

Victorian era = age of the steamship, stream train, steam vehicle...

It's official. There exist Steampunk settings with less steam power than the actual Victorian era.

Probably. All you need is the reliance of technology to be on steam. You could have a modestly technologically cultured civilization that uses Hero's turbine for their industries and it'd technically be steampunk.

[Leafsnail]

I think "steampunk" as a general idea is kindof a hypothetical "what if we didn't have more modern technologies and instead just kept improving on older ones".  So because we never discovered electricity or petrol engines we instead made all these wacky steam contraptions.  I don't think this is the generally accepted definition, though.

What do you mean be "meaningful", anyway? I honestly don't know. Is "anime" really even meaningful? With the rise of non-Japanese anime, it really seems to be little more than an art style now, and that doesn't really seem like a "meaningful" label for classifying media, does it? At least, no more meaningful than "furry" or "steampunk".

I regard "anime" as a shorthand for "Japanese cartoons".  I don't think there's anything strange about categorizing media according to country of origin (although it usually isn't necessary).

Ultimately, it really just sounds like you're saying "I don't think your interest/hobby is worthwhile or worth discussing" which is, quite frankly, kind of rude and pointless.

I'm saying I can't see much reason to put them all under the same umbrella when there isn't really anything uniting them.  Like, unless it's a sexual thing I don't see the point.

[Tuck_Lion]

Leafsnail has intentionally been trying to derail and deconstruct this thread for some time now and there comes a point at which it is no longer acceptable. He just reached that point.

[ToonyMan]

Leafsnail has intentionally been trying to derail and deconstruct this thread for some time now and there comes a point at which it is no longer acceptable. He just reached that point.

Yay I was waiting for another sig.