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[Brotato]

Brothers and sisters, followers of the Old Ones!  They have awakened!

[forsaken1111]

Agh. I keep seeing "Empyrea" in my list of updated threads and going "What the hell is that?" before clicking it and remembering that this changed names. So confusing.

[Kaje]

I backed this a long time ago, prior to the Kickstarter, but I can't find any of my emails about it. I *think* I was allowed to create a god, or something. I genuinely can't remember - but I know I did it!

Is there any way you could look back through your emails if I were to PM you the email address I'd have used? Failing that, is there a way to back you post-Kickstarter?

[ScriptWolf]

bump anything new out?

[Baijiu]

Nope. Check the forum. The guy developing the game is so burnt out now he's contemplating refunds. Another DF-like down for the count.

[Mephansteras]

Nope. Check the forum. The guy developing the game is so burnt out now he's contemplating refunds. Another DF-like down for the count.

Awwww. That's a serious bummer.

[hemmingjay]

Here is what he wrote for those who don't have access or don't want to dig it up :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hi, all. David here. Yes, I've been 'gone' for the past month or so. Well, I have checked in here enough to know I need to post by now, so I'm going to go ahead and do it.

To put it plainly: things are not going so well. I've hit another brick wall; going on with Python means major performance issues or taking a LOT of time to figure out ways around them. Alternatively, I could try completely porting the project over to another engine. The downsides to that are obvious. I have done some experimentation with C/Unity, but in the end I can't really get around the fact that things are not looking so good.

I think another problem at this point is that I *myself* am losing steam when it comes to the project. At one point this thing ate up my thoughts, dreams, et cetera. Now I am... frankly, not so enthusiastic about it. My life has moved in a different direction than I expected, and my goals have changed. That does not mean I intend to drop it or quit my obligations; I'm just stating reality (after all, lying isn't going to do me any good). For a long time I thought I could just plow my way through it with sheer determination no matter how unhappy I was with the work itself. At this point I'm being forced to acknowledge that isn't the case. As much as I wanted to be at one point, I'm not Tarn Adams.

So, I want to try and work with everyone to create the least possible amount of disappointment while still remaining realistic. How does everyone want to proceed from this point? I see several options, some of which could happen in conjunction:

1. Everyone REALLY wants me to continue to try and work on this. In this case, I will do my best to fulfill the project to the best degree possible.
2. I make the code open source for the community, plus all the resources/assets. I give up any/all rights to the project and allow anyone who wants to continue it or use pieces/parts of it to do so.
3. In conjunction with #2, I focus only on the world-gen code and make it a library for anybody who wants to base a game off of it. The more I think about it, the more I realize this is really the only aspect of this I've really enjoyed, and it would probably be the most practical to continue on a long-term basis while expecting reasonable results.
4. I offer refunds. They won't happen all at once; it's a pretty big debt to pay back. But I am not going to back out of my responsibilities, even if I'm forced to admit that I didn't succeed in my goals.

Yeah, that's probably plenty to start with. If possible, let's please have a reasonable discussion; too much conflict will be moved elsewhere. I'm not taking anything off of the table at this point, including continued development on the game, but I need to know what everyone thinks.

To which I responded:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Before I get started, Dave, we know you are a decent guy and were never out to screw anyone over. You were honest so I will be honest. I am disappointed. I commend you for taking on a huge undertaking, but it might have been too much. That has been evident the multiple times you have disappeared on us. It seems like you are asking permission to quit and you don't need it. You are not legally obligated to refund the money or finish the project and I'm not certain you can do either at this point.

I vote do what you want. Do what feels best to you at this point. We backed you because we believed in the project or you, depending on whether we found you from KS or from B12 forums. At this point you have collected more than $34,000 and have delivered a world generator that sort of works after 13 months. If I remove our history from the equation that seems pretty awful. I'm not trying to kick you when you are down, but rather I think some real talk is in order.

So be straight with us. What do you honestly intend to do from here? Please don't pretend it's up to us or make lofty promises. Give us a real answer and commitment one way or another. We have been generous with support, time, understanding and money.

[PrimusRibbus]

Speaking from experience with a number of single person or small team software projects: Once you hit the level of burnout he's describing, the project is effectively over. I've seen very few developers bounce back from this state. More often than not they lie to themselves and think that if they just worked a little harder, the project would get back on track. That tends to last for about a month before final burnout commences.

Dave is his own man, and I certainly don't mean to put words in his mouth. I do hope, though, that he makes an honest assessment of the situation and doesn't try to commit to something that he won't be able to do long-term.

Mad respect to Dave for starting a dialogue and trying to take responsibility for this. Many developers have just freaked out and disappeared into the night when put in this situation.

[Anvilfolk]

I'm not going to register on yet another forum, and it turns out that I backed this, so I might as well drop my opinion on here (and feel free to copy it over to the forum).

It doesn't really matter to me. I'm sad the project isn't going to be completed, but I've been thinking about Kickstarter/crowdfunding a lot, and a recent talk with a mathematician friend of mine (with some very acute analysis capability, and whose opinion I value very much) just cementer the thoughts I'd come up with: Kickstarter is about letting many people risking very little instead of one big sponsor (publisher) risking a lot to try to get a project done. People who use KS need to start realising that, and running their own little risk-analysis.

I, for one, have learned that I will start backing only people that have a track record in game development. It's not that I doubt the intent people who don't - it's just that I'm realising more and more how much is involved in this type of endeavour. It's easy to get a few things on screen, a little guy moving. Making a real game that you can expand upon takes a lot of reading, a lot of learning, complicated thought processes, and an enjoyment of the development process itself. Not backing someone without a track record is about sending a message. People should prove their capabilities before asking for money. It's because this hasn't been happening that projects that would've just fizzled out in a basement somewhere before are now generating these kinds of feelings from the part of the community and the developer himself. When money comes into the equation, stuff just goes sour. It's really tough - especially on the developer, and even more so if he is an honest fellow like our Lord Dullard here. It's something that we should avoid, as part of the "indie game development movement", if you will.

Anyway - whatever happens happens, and it's OK with me I haven't really followed the development. At the very least I would like to see something come out of it. Source code would be fine

And like PrimusRibbus said: I have a lot of respect for Lord Dullard for what he's doing. Honesty and truth above all else - so thank you for being that way!

[Mephansteras]

I think making it an open-source engine is the best idea. Gives him a smaller and more manageable goal while still getting something worthwhile put out into the world.

[Tellemurius]

I think making it an open-source engine is the best idea. Gives him a smaller and more manageable goal while still getting something worthwhile put out into the world.

It honestly would be a better route for him, i'll voice my support.

[Grand Nagus]

I agree, at this point I think he should work on what he enjoys and try to make the most of it. I don't think he has the commitment to do anymore. I'm sure he's skilled, but he's not behind the project anymore, his flame is out.

[hemmingjay]

I don't care what he chooses to do, as long as he takes ownership of it on his own and commits to one course of action. He has not held to any promise yet, including the multiple times he prmised he would be more communicative.

Note: I have no ill will towards LD. This is strictly a business matter in the loosest sense and I truly hope he comes back to the community here on a regular basis. The worst part of this whole KS is that we lost him as an active member on the forum.

[Neonivek]

I really have no say since I never donated. Whatever happens.

[Anvilfolk]

The worst part of this whole KS is that we lost him as an active member on the forum.

Infinitely this