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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Aircraft with comparable engine powerwise but 10+ years newer (BTW, power is not everything that determines effectiveness of engine, propellers need development too)

Specifications (Spitfire Mk XIV)
 
Length: 30 ft (9.14 m)
Wingspan: 36 ft 10 in (11.23 m)
Height: 10 ft (3.05 m)
Wing area: 242.1 ft2 (22.48 m2)

Empty weight: 6,578 lb (2,984 kg)
Loaded weight: 7,923 lb (3,593 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 8,488 lb (3,850 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce Griffon 65, supercharged V12 engine , 5-bladed Jablo-Rotol propeller, 2,050 hp (1,528 kW) at 8,000 ft (2,438 m)

Performance
Maximum speed: 448 mph, (391 kn, 717 km/h)
Combat radius: 400 nmi (459 mi, 740 km)
Ferry range: 950 nmi (1,090 mi, 1,815 km)
Service ceiling: 43,500 ft (13,258 m)
Rate of climb: 3,650 ft/min (18.5 m/s)
Wing loading: 32.72 lb/ft2 (159.8 kg/m2)
Power/mass: 0.24 hp/lb (0.42 kW/kg)

Guns: ** 2 × 20 mm (0.787-in) Hispano Mk II cannon, 120 rpg.
4 × 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns, 350 rpg. Replaced by 2 x .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns 250 rpg Mk XIVE.
Bombs: 2 × 250 lb (113 kg) bombs

fast fighter
Wingspan 12m
Weight: 3800kg
Engine: 1200kw
Armament: 2 14mm HMG
Crew: 1
Speed:
610km/h unencumbered
563km/h with 125kg of ordinance.

What is better than our new fighter?

So, realworld spitfire it's slightly lighter,  100 km\h hour faster, has 25% more powerful engine), and has roughly 2.5 times more armament

Considering that this is one of the last modifications of the arguably best fighter of the WW2, the fact that our fighter isn't as good is understandable

[kahn1234]

well, yes, when you compare it to a mid-late 40's fighter upgraded with knowledge gleaned during WW2.

I'm not saying a huge increase in power. And i'm not saying ours is as good as the spitfire. It does need improvement.

Plus that spitfire has a RR Griffon, not the merlin, which actually has several hundred kw less power than ours, but an equal speed (probably due to the plane having larger wings and less weight, but still).

[RAM]

I think 600 km\h is very generous from our GM, never expected fighter that fast that early , that's our first full metal fighter thus unlikely to have good aerodynamics and stuff. Also engine is not only powerful, but also heavy

On other hand speed is compensated by lower number of installable weapons so probably not that unrealistic

The engine is just over 150KG heavier than the Rolls-Royce Merlin, whilst having over 500kw more power. I dont care if you think its generous, the fighter is too slow and carries too little for the engine it has.

RAM feels that this would be about the point that one would assume that the game is not a perfect model of reality, and that the G.M. may, purely according to their whims, apply any results that they want...

P.S.
 RAM wishes to apologise for listing their proposal as a new proposal rather than a modification. It did not occur to RAM that this might split the voting. RAM wishes to ask that, With Ukrainian Ranger's Permission, proposal 11 be considered a modification to proposal 10. Although RAM really would prefer to have a heavier twin-engined craft with more fuel and ammunition and hopes that a biplane would have a lower stall speed and be able to more swiftly aim its main armament.

P.P.S.
 RAM will likely vote in the morning, maybe 10 or 12 hours from now...

P.P.P.S.
 RAM is quite happy to accept that the current armaments may prove ineffectual in time, and feels that such unfortunate surprises should provide entertainment. RAM also assumes that if a weapon capable of penetrating late World War II armour is produced early, that either armour will become stronger as a result, or that armour will be reduced in favour of mobility. RAM feels that either way, the more powerful weapons would represent a significant drain on resources that is ill-matched to the needs.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

RAM wishes to ask that, With Ukrainian Ranger's Permission, proposal 11 be considered a modification to proposal 10.

Sure, I do prefer my version, but yours look fun, too  (It's larger and thus more expensive, but that's hard to say what would be better 2-3 of my dive bombers or one of yours. )  and I will be happy if either version will win

RAM is quite happy to accept that the current armaments may prove ineffectual in time, and feels that such unfortunate surprises should provide entertainment.

UR shares that view and is sad that we got no airship aircraft carriers

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Plus that spitfire has a RR Griffon, not the merlin, which actually has several hundred kw less power than ours, but an equal speed (probably due to the plane having larger wings and less weight, but still).

Want older spitfire with Merlin? OK

Specifications (Spitfire Mk Vb)
General characteristics
Crew: one pilot
Length: 29 ft 11 in (9.12 m)
Wingspan: 36 ft 10 in (11.23 m)
Height: 11 ft 5 in (3.86 m)
Wing area: 242.1 ft2 (22.48 m2)
Airfoil: NACA 2209.4(tip)
Empty weight: 5,090 lb (2,309 kg)
Loaded weight: 6,622 lb (3,000 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 6,770 lb (3,071 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce Merlin 45 supercharged V12 engine, 1,470 hp (1,096 kW) at 9,250 ft (2,820 m)

Performance
Maximum speed: 378 mph, (330 kn, 605 km/h)
Combat radius: 410 nmi (470 mi, 760 km)



Armament
Guns: ** 8 × 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns, 350 rpg
Bombs: 2 × 250 lb (113 kg) bombs

Has 100kw less engine (not several hundreds) , significantly  lighter, can carry one more bomb, has comparable but more spread armament, has same speed....

First Spifire that had the worst engine? OK

Loaded weight   5,935 lb (2,692 kg)

1,030 hp (770 kW) at 16,000 ft (4,877 m) 87 Octane fuel, +6 lb/in² boost

Armament 8 × 0.303" Browning machine guns; 350 rpg

Maximum speed   367 mph (582 km/h) at 18,600 ft (5,669 m)   354 mph (570 km/h) at 17,550 ft [

1\3 less poweful engine, 1\3 lighter, comparable armament, slightly slower, no bomb mounts....



Ps, sorry for the double-post....

[kahn1234]

fair enough.

might as well upgrade the fast fighter we have then to give it better wingspan, less weight etc....

[Brood]

I'll propose an update on the anti tank weapon myself then. The current version was just as a prototype for mass production anyway to deal with the threat of light armor for infantry and to disable heavy armor.
It needs some heavy upgrading to increase it's range, accuracy and damage anyway.

The assault rifle also needs some tweaking to make it a bit more effective before mass production so I'll do that as well.



I don't care if people want to edit my designs dude part of this game is editing designs or upgrading on other peoples completed designs.

[kahn1234]

AA - High velocity.
Radar - Precise compact.

Begin an upgrade on the RPG, priority on increased damage to allow reliable penetration of medium armor with 1 hit and multiple hits to
penetrate heavy armor.
Secondary priority on range and accuracy.

Begin an upgrade on the assault rifle, priority on rate of fire and bullet velocity, secondary prioloty on accuracy and recoil reduction.

Devote 1-2 electronic engineers to begin work on designing an electronic guidance system for rocket/missile related weaponry either through thermal lock or laser targeting.

Voting to come later.

Thermal lock..... laser targetting..... in 1932.......

somehow, i dont think that will work.

[Brood]

Thats why I'm beginning it now, it's gonna take time either way so worth a shot at beginning it now to see if people vote or not.

[3_14159]

I'm very sorry if I seem overly critical, but may I ask you, brood, to please reconsider ahistorical and quite honestly impossible proposals.

Lasers have not even been predicted yet, and would be proven in the 1950's. So not only is the application several decades too early, there isn't even the possibility to think about it.
Thermal guidance, while less early, would basically need the jet-engine's heat output and wouldn't be usable.

[Brood]

Would be for targetting enemy ground facilities which produce a lot of heat, but I did a slight edit to make them an if possible and the main priority just to begin designing electronic guidance, so we can get a foot in the door at least.

[mesor]

Ok looks like me and Alex will be deciding on the majority of the projects that pass unless she has something to propose.


Are votes for industrial and engineer proposals taken out of the 5 vote limit?

[3_14159]

From what I remember, the nearly only possible guidance would be either correcting for wind and so on (autopilot), and wire-guided. Maybe radar guided from the launching craft. Is that what you'd envision?

Ok looks like me and Alex will be deciding on the majority of the projects that pass unless she has something to propose.


Are votes for industrial and engineer proposals taken out of the 5 vote limit?

Well, there are other people still here... ;-)

And no, they aren't.

[mesor]

A lot of the main players have used up most of there points on proposals though, I don't have any for this turn so thats 5 votes for me.

The RPG and Assault rifle I'm voting for.... yeah yeah bring on the rigging crap. I'm picking them because it requires minamul man power and both can be produced in high numbers in a short time giving a largevimmediate impact on the fighting.

The 78mm cannon I'm voting on because I like the design a lot and don't see any need to change it.

Other then that I have 2 votes and 4 projects I like.


1 vote left over.

[Brood]

Not really what I had in mind, but thats why I did thermal, laser as if possible and left the main point open ended for the boss to work with.