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[Taricus]

Yeah, propoganda isn't going to cut it on an international level. I'd rather not have to deal with an intervening superpower that has 40000 ton ships, far more manpower and production ability. Supply lines shouldn't be a problem if our ground forces move to secure the molovian coastline so we can ship in more supplies.

And I'd say it's unlikely, even impossible for the Capians to ally with the Molovians, due to the latter's aggression.

[RAM]

I am opposed to attacking the intervening country, but I am willing to consider it with a couple of provisions.
1: It is our business. We are not military commanders here, we just make the goodies...
2: We declare war comfortably in advance. getting a reputation for surprise attacks will cause everyone we meat to go all preemptive on us.
3: We seek diplomatic arrangements first. Say that we take it as aggression that they are protecting Morovia while they attack our merchants and demand that they allow our forces passage through their territory or force Moronvia to offer an end to hostilities.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Not military alliance *facepalm*

I imagine how our diplomats will do that:

Hey! Let's form a non military alliance and you'll help me in my current war.... No, no. That's not a military alliance. That's just an alliance but you will aid me in the war with your neighbor.

I ask again what purpose of that alliance if it is not a destruction of Morovia? All alliances have some purpose.


Taricus , OK, if not attack, than, can we do something more practical than trying to make Capia to start war with Morovia? Like offering  trade deals to them?  Non-aggression pact. Both things are acceptable for a country that tries to remain neutral...
If we'll sell some of our older fighters to them,  (hundred or so) they may be grateful and see this as a sign of our peaceful intentions
We are producing newer fighters, will produce even  newer later and likely have limited number of pilots, so offloading older aircrafts is not bad idea

[Taricus]

The Molovians will not bomb Capia if they grant us passage through their land, as such an attack will likely draw Capia into the war on our side (Even if such an alliance is one of convenience.).

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Granting passage = Capia into the war on our side.... It's so obvious for me that it is damn hard to argue.

Let's bring that to personal level. Your neighbor (that has guns) accepted you enemy with gun, and neighbor shoots to you from the window of your neighbours house. Will you shoot back or halt fire to not anger your neighbor and let your enemy fire at you unopposed? ( we are in the world without police, etc.)

[Taricus]

If my enemy is in his neighbor's house, his own is unoccupied. I make it look like I'm still home while I go around and go into his house.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Uhm dude I already used O.

THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD STOP TO EDIT POST WITH PROPOSALS AND MAKE NEW WITH NEW ONES,
I am not gonna reread all suggestion to note that someone added proposals

retroactively adding proposals like that just  pisses me...

If my enemy is in his neighbor's house, his own is unoccupied. I make it look like I'm still home while I go around and go into his house.

You very well understood what I meant, don't play a strawman. Your neighbor lets your enemy to use his house to kill you, that clearly shows that are allies in one form or another

More direct question: Our forces are firing at Morovian territorry from Capian territory, what should they do? Our forces are advancing from Capian territory to Morovian border, what should Morovia do? Our forces use roads and bridges of Capia to move supplies and reinforcements, what should Morovia do? Our aircrafts use Capian airbases to strike Morovian ones, what should Morovia do?  Nothing to not bring Capia into war? Capia is already in the war by providing direct aid
 

[Brood]

If all they do is allow us to march through it's not direct aid.

They won't attack somebody not attacking them if they are already at war. It'd be suicide.

[RAM]

I agree with the idea that anywhere that our troops are allowed to march will be considered a legitimate battlefield. Although if we just use their waters unopposed(The morovian submarines probably already do this) then that would only mean fighting in their territorial waters, possibly only along one of two coasts. They might be willing to let that slide to stay out of things.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

We have very different definitions of direct aid... They are providing us ability to wage war...

Let's reverse the situation, Morovia got military access and attacks from Capian territory. Would you advocate attack into Capia? Or just let them shell our forces with artillery without ever shooting back? Let them to bomb us from Capian airfields? Let them supply their forces without interference?

Naval military access (as well as airspace) is much more real, true and probably will not lead to a war, But still will sour their relations with Morovia, something that I doubt they want too
And anyway, starting with non-aggression pact is more practical

Hoping for some support to trade attempt

[Brood]

My alliance includes trade.

I'd attack our forces in Capia but not engage Capians themselves unless they attack first.

Allowing passage and actively fighting us are two different things.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Even if your alliance includes trade it never specifies offers
BTW I want to see examples of non military alliances, fail to see ones in the real world

____________________
So you'd Advance into Capian territory and not expect to not fight their forces? Do you hope that would just move again? Or "just" bomb their territory and expect that they'll  never fire back? Ok... stopping that... Repeating myself will not do anything good, your vision of international diplomacy is beyond my understanding

[Brood]

Ok I'll make it simple.

Cause : We attack through Capia but Capia does not attack.
Effect : Morovia attacks Capia for allowing passage
Effect : Capia attacks Morovia in retaliation.
Effect : Morovia is fighting twice as many men men now.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Ok I'll make it simple.

Cause : We attack through Capia but Capia does not attack.
Effect : Morovia attacks Capia for allowing passage
Effect : Capia attacks Morovia in retaliation.
Effect : Morovia is fighting twice as many men men now.

That's means that Capia understands that giving military access equals to starting a war with Morovia because Morovia has no other choice but shoot back at our forces... Something I am trying to prove (another option is backstab attack when our forces will reach Capia borders)
__________________________

Ok, that's dead, I am in the next turn mood,gonna see what will happen and have like 10 vague proposal ideas...

[Taricus]

Capia gains nothing by attempting to backstab us, nor do they likely have any weapons that could reliably damage our tanks. This means that unless they seriously ramp up their military designs they are more or less unable to face us in a war due top our ground and air superiority.

Simply put, they are at a signifigant disadvantage if they attempt to attack us in transit, and naval superiority means nothing if they have nowhere to resupply. Commiting to a pearl-habour style attack will end as well as it did for the japanese (AKA: They lost. Badly.)