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Author Topic: What now?  (Read 1556 times)

firsal

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What now?
« on: May 08, 2013, 01:59:45 am »

Hi. I'm new to DF and I've just made my first 'successful' fortress of around 100 dwarves. I have bedrooms, dining halls, sculpture gardens, barracks and militia, decked out with full armor, smoothened out the whole fort and even a watchtower.

First question: I find that a lot of my dwarves, some 10-20 of them are just always idle and not doing stuff, while the rest are either storing stuff in piles or actually doing something productive, the earlier is more common. Am I doing something wrong, or not doing something at all?

Second question: I find that most of my dwarves are farmers. Now I don't mind 5 or 6 of them but, 16? That's way too much. What should I do with the extra dwarves? I'm pretty sure my other industries are not lacking, or I have no need for that industry at all.

Third question: I just had my first goblin ambush, and I lost 2 dwarves, a cook and swords dwarf, while taking out only one of the attacking goblins. Is there any way I can do better?

Thanks in advance.

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fricy

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Re: What now?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 02:33:54 am »

1. Personally I like about 10% of my workforce to be idle, so I always have someone to pull a lever. Very important in case of emergencies...

2. Use dwarf therapist to manage your dwarfs, 16 farmers may be good or bad depending on your industries. If you have lot's of ores to smelt set some of those farmers to furnace operators. Or conscript them into your army. Or set up a cloth industry and get those farmers to grow pig tails. etc.

3. Oh, there's always room for improvement. :)

Caldfir

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Re: What now?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 02:52:27 am »

The idle dwarves - check their labors and see if perhaps hauling is turned off.  Idle dwarves are not necessarily bad, unless you're waiting a long time for things to get done.  10% idle is pretty normal.  If hauling is enabled for everybody, then there probably just aren't enough hauling jobs to go around. 

"Farmer" is just a description of a broad set of skills the dwarf currently has.  Each of those individual skills are of varying degrees of usefulness, so many "farmers" can mean a lot of things.  Also, you can assign any labors to any dwarf, and as they work those skills will improve, and their displayed profession will change to reflect that. 

As for security - wall off any outdoor sections you plan on using regularly, with only entrances/exits in predefined locations.  Guard those locations somehow (traps and doors are the simplest way to go).  Set things up so that dwarves spend most of their time indoors if at all possible.  Avoid fighting directly with anything until your military is relatively well trained (doing this is complicated and fairly involved - read the wiki).  Never send your dwarves to fight against archers - try to lure archers into traps if you can. 

Be aware that the thing that eventually gets you will not be what you expect.  You will be working on making some kind of megaproject, and some minor thing you forgot about will come back and wreak havoc on the whole setup.  As the game currently stands, it is actually pretty difficult to actually outright "lose", however it is easy for a small event to cripple a fortress badly enough you can't really do anything with it, so be prepared for that eventuality. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:57:13 am by Caldfir »
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where is up?

firsal

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Re: What now?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2013, 04:17:22 am »

Thanks for the replies.

Also, I have struck a cavern. I send my squad of swordsdwarves to check things out, and find nothing. 5 minutes later, a troglodyte comes out and get his shit ruined by my swords dwarves. What should I do now?
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Miriage

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Re: What now?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 04:33:51 am »

Wait for the scary monsters to come and ruin your day.
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fricy

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Re: What now?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 04:39:09 am »

Wall it off, so you don't have to worry about invasions from below. Or set up a loom and wood and food stockpiles so you have a relatively safe source of resources. If you decide to use the cavern I'd advice you to station a squad there. Creatures will spawn there like on the surface. The first cavern should be safe more or less, you get stronger enemies going down. It's really just another  surface...

Garath

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Re: What now?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2013, 04:42:18 am »

as suggested, either wall it off if you don't want to worry about it or consider it hostile territory that needs a guarded entrance complete with raising bridges and traps. If you don't want to use cage traps (they are over powered) you can use weapon traps. Just because you -can- put 10 serrated discs in there doesn't mean you should and goes a long way to making them less powerful
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Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

firsal

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Re: What now?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2013, 05:44:20 am »

Wait for the scary monsters to come and ruin your day.

Shit.

I guess i'll wall it off, make some draw bridges etc...

EDIT: A Forgotten Beast, a camel, just came out of the cavern and walked into my fort. My militia promptly took care of him, although one is badly injured, and I have no hospital.  :(

A bronze colossus also came in, and was promptly killed.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:34:37 am by firsal »
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Starver

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Re: What now?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 07:36:17 am »

Just to add some things of my own note.  Personally I take it as a personal challenge to have zero idlers (the thing about "enough idle to pull a lever" is good, but I try to arrange things so that emergency levers (which the uncounted idlers that are children/some nobles can do anyway) aren't a life-or-death-this-instant thing.  Of course, that requires planning things so that they aren't.

As more or less said, "farmer" could well be a dwarf with relatively equal but low-level shearing, bee-keeping and plant-gathering skills.  Although if you haven't turned off the (o)ption for "All dwarves harvest" (or whatever it is again), then random dwarves will increase their planter/grower-type skill (especially children!), and it may supersede their intended primary skill (such as Architect) if you don't level them up in that so much.  I usually find something (constructing rock blocks? smoothing walls?) that the 'lesser' farmers, or indeed any otherwise untrained-in-anything-currently/imminently/eventually-useful dwarf, can be assigned to, just to keep them useful.  And then there's hauling, but without a level-up possibility or any relevance towards future moodcrafts[1] I generally reserve that to those already qualified enough to do something important but not currently needed.  (Which in effect is everyone not either assigned to a specific craft, smoothing the hell out of my impending magmaduct/water-pipe in preparation or being a "Construction Mason" (not itself a skill-learning experience, but vitally important when I've got above-ground and over-ground structures needing placing.)

And, indeed, Dwarf Therapist is invaluable for managing all the above.


In my forts, if I lost a cook to an ambush (except maybe really early on), I'd be doing something very wrong indeed.  But then I (as others have mentioned) partition off territory as a compound and (except for further outer-area construction) don't let civvies wander around outside this area.  Meanwhile I often have ranged-combat dwarves walking the tops of the compound walls (perhaps behind fortifications) and mêlée/ranged troops or guard animals stationed to reveal sneaking enemies (single snatchers/thieves or units of ambushers) with suitable warning times.  But these are my forts, and I'm a control-freak in this regard.

Perhaps the best defence for you is more watchtowers, more watchers, and see if you can get some (more?) ranged troops drafted.  This might help soften up invaders before they get into range of a cook (or, even, your sworddwarves!).  Although for advanced points you'd set it up so that you'd have a sealable "killing zone".  Sealable inside and out.  When your early-warning system alerts you to shock-troops (or single enemies) you let them half way through, then attack them (either from afar, with ranged troops, by them crossing traps of some kind to be partially killed and/or captured or by sending in your best mêlée troops through a side-door).  With them (and your troops, if appropriate) sealed into the killing zone then they may cannot run away, and you can continue (by whatever means) to kill and/or capture them.  For maximum gathering of Goblinite, and or live-targets for your more advanced firing range or sparring-arena.  This is what I try to do, anyway, although obviously you need to finesse some of this (and take some risks, while at it).

Also note that traps currently (as of a very recent version change) also block Wagon travel.  You cannot cover your trading-route into your base with traps and still expect to get wagons visiting.  However by making "wall-like" extensions of traps part way across a double-width entryway (alternating from each side) you can grant a wagon a (windy) route through the traps, while non-wagons (immigrants, non-wagon traders, diplomats, and of course every type of hostile) will walk straight across the lines of traps.  With the non-[TRAP_AVOID]ing hostiles succumbing to your trap defences, probably.  (A more advanced method is to create a "straight route" that relies on raised bridges being lowered, perhaps, so that you can speed wagons in/out of your fort when you know they are coming in, but with the bridges raised (or retracted, if over unpathable ditches) you have a not-quite-so-short trap-laden route ready for the hostiles and a longer 'wagon-friendly' route so that surprise wagons don't assess your Depot as inaccessible without giving you the chance to grant them the better access.  I repeat, this is a more advanced approach, and you might need to try to work out some of the details yourself to better understand what I mean here.)


[1] Some people might do something like (say) set up a forge to produce something simple like gauntlets, restrict it to low-level armourers and then apply "armour making" to every dwarf that isn't otherwise useful.  At some point it's possibly that a constructive mood strikes a marginally-skilled armourer and they then become very good at it.  Also some skill gives dwarves a trade to offset "demobbing" bad thoughts for those otherwise doomed to become occasional rank and file.  Along the way you get potential trade-goods (or, if you pick your chosen product, something that you use even at low quality).  Anyway, you can rinse and repeat for other similar 'worthy' trades.  Or indeed spam several different worthy trades over the whole gamut of candidates, and then as you attain your one legendary dwarf (or two, for security/speed?) you can cut the rest off from this skill and see if the next mood gets you...  weaponsmith, or whatever.  Note that I don't do this myself, so my theory and recall of the process might not match the practice, but it could always be worth a try.


A (long) postscript on caverns: I tend to (try to) break into them from above, before having a walkable access (sealing off any inadvertent walkable access straight away if I ever make them).  Then I'm at leisure to decide what I want to do in them (or, indeed, whether I want to open them up so fully in order to do anything in them).  Often I'll merely tap into a cavern pool of water as a water-source (the full description of how I'd do that is lengthy, but I basically tap them for water in a manner that prevents simple creature movement into my fort through said water-access, whether it be a well or just flowing through a side-channel), and similarly exploit the magma sea when I find it.  I've very rarely been tempted to go in there to mine the cavern walls (although I know that I could), because I usually find enough non-wall tiles that I can mine of gems or ore or otherwise interesting rocks.  Once the caverns are breached I can (if I want) make sure that the plants and 'trees' that are found in the caverns can grow in non-cavern voids of my own making, in fact sometimes I find I'm spending effort to stop them doing so.  Spider silk is probably the one resource I'd consider going into a cavern to get, especially GCS-silk.  But the normal stuff is (as per cavern-fauna) now probably available in areas under my direct control, and GCS-silk farming has its risks associated (that one doesn't get with a good trade relationship bringing in the raw or processed materials, thereof).

So, for me, I find I don't "walk through" caverns, although by breaching (and then re-sealing) the ceilings of said caverns from above, somewhere near the limits of the last sight-line, I get a decent look at what I'd be missing and also get to know how to miss the caverns, when I'm trying to get further down the geological stack (perhaps to find and identify the next cavern, but ultimately it's the Magma Sea that I crave!).  And every now and then I actually use the space down there (as opposed to "digging round it", or even building walls and floors into the 'roof space' to allow me to continue my subterranean dig-plan even across the inconvenient void I've just hit), but only so very occasionally.


Anyway, given you're killing things, perhaps my general "hands off" approach is far too cautionary to be included in your playing style.  You seem capable enough.  (As are my units, often, but I'm just a control-freak with an aversion to needless bloodshed. ;) )
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fractalman

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Re: What now?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 02:23:57 pm »

Only 2 dwarves lost in your first goblin ambush?
Not bad!

Cage trap spam, and/or steel-armor (or at least steel helmets) for everyone, and change the military schedule to have groups of 2-3 dwarves assigned to training, as if it's set to 10, training will never even start unless the squad is full. 

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firsal

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Re: What now?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2013, 05:27:01 am »

One more question, my dwarves refuse to farm a plot. Only the top-right plot is being used. Any response as to why?
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Garath

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Re: What now?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2013, 05:59:07 am »

not enough seeds, farmers busy somewhere else?
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Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

firsal

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Re: What now?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2013, 06:26:28 am »

not enough seeds, farmers busy somewhere else?

No. I have some plump helmet spawn, and the fields are set to grow plump helmets. Everyone has farming enabled now, and I have idlers.
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Garath

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Re: What now?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2013, 07:27:15 am »

do you get messages saying something like "Urist cancels plant seed:" (forgot the message)? It might be people are taking away seed barrels to pick up seeds somewhere else and the farmers never get to plant anything
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Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

firsal

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Re: What now?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2013, 07:32:01 am »

do you get messages saying something like "Urist cancels plant seed:" (forgot the message)? It might be people are taking away seed barrels to pick up seeds somewhere else and the farmers never get to plant anything

None of that
 

Also, I used a bucket brigade to irrigate the underground farm.
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