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[NikGreek]

      By the time the society is L, not L+, my LCS members are only opening the doors, spray painting and going out to remind the people that they are watching. They even surrender to the authorities afterwards because i like not even been wanted. By that time my grip of the legal system can let me walk off a couple of treason charges.(Dunno about murder, since i usually never fire a bullet.) Then i tell the people all about it in the guardian and lead public opinion to L+. I always assumed that the more liberal the society, the less violent the LCS becomes. Grimith has a video with a solo run on youtube, i don't think he shoots or kidnaps anybody either. He seduces some CEO's to speed up the late game and that's it. It totally works starting from nightmare too, it is easier in fact because mutants with 16 charisma don't need anything else. One of them is enough to seduce everyone you will ever need in court at 200 juice, that is with a clean criminal record.

[Ihlosi]

I've sent Liberals to the Uni Hospital from time to time (my LCS can afford it) but never noticed a financial hit for their care.  Is there a screen I missed, L+ Health Care that doesn't bill the LCS, or was it just abstracted out somehow?

Yes, L+ Health Care must have slipped past the Conservative radar.

Implementing some kind of cost for patching up Liberals wounded in the name of Liberalism might make earning money somewhat more of an issue. Treating injuries outside a hospital should also incur some costs (for bandages, drugs, etc).

Oh, yes, and a C+ health care anyone who cannot pay their excessive hospital bills should be chopped up for organ donations for the rich.  Welcome to the Conservative nightmare.

I also think the difficulty curve is ... wonky. Some things could be done to address this, for example making earning money even harder as the country becomes more liberal (this mechanic is already somewhat present in the donations/music/art/brownies activities). Make the pawn shop pay less, embezzlement pay less (because more money is taxed away), credit card fraud pay less, etc.

Also, give the public opinion serious hits towards conservative if the LCS is caught committing unliberal crimes (possessing/using weapons, etc).

[Leafsnail]

Making it harder to earn money wouldn't address difficulty curve issues much - it'd just make the opening game a little harder.  The main issue really is that, with the sole exception of Gun Control, every issue turning more L either makes the game easier for you or doesn't make much of a difference.

[Ihlosi]

Making it harder to earn money wouldn't address difficulty curve issues much - it'd just make the opening game a little harder.

Well, making money should become harder as the laws move towards L+. This mechanism is already somewhat implemented in the game - selling brownies and art/music/donations become less profitable.

The opening game wouldn't necessarily become harder. At the beginning of the game, there should be plenty of ways to make money, but you'll have to pick carefully since your skills are still low. Later in the game, you have better skills, but you will need them in order to still turn a profit.

The main issue really is that, with the sole exception of Gun Control, every issue turning more L either makes the game easier for you or doesn't make much of a difference.

Well, womens rights makes a difference, depending on whether your Liberal is male or female. The percentage of female NPCs changes with the womens rights - at C+ you won't find female police officers/scientists/hangin' judges/etc.

If the LCS' hideouts were occasionally targetted by gangs and other criminals (to steal stuff or eliminate competition in the brownie business), liberal police and gun laws might also make the game harder - at C+, you'll have a fast police response and you'll be allowed to shoot the attackers (castle doctrine & guns are legal), while at L+ the police response will be slow and ineffective, and don't you dare shoot the attackers since you'll have a duty to flee and guns are illegal anyway.

Also, with C+ gay rights it could be possible to blackmail anyone you seduced successfully (though attempting to seduce someone of the same sex should be illegal). As the law becomes more liberal, this option disappears.

At L+ animal rights laws, attacking animals (even guard dogs) should be a crime.

At L+ privacy laws, secrets (files, memos, etc) should be harder to obtain..

[Leafsnail]

Well they do make a difference, but not one which makes the game harder.  I guess you could say having pollution and nuclear power moving away from C+ also makes the game harder since you can't recruit super-mutants anymore.

e: Police Negotiators also mean you lose a bit of juice if you shoot at them, but it's not really a major thing and most of my liberals are immune to them by that point anyway.

[KA101]

Uh, one of the major benefits to Nightmare Mode is the C+ Drug Policy making brownies 4x as valuable as they typically would be.  Pretty confident that they aren't that worthwhile at L+ when marijuana is legal.

I'd say Stand Your Ground is the C+/C ROE.  Castle doctrine seems closer to C/M.

[Ihlosi]

I'd say Stand Your Ground is the C+/C ROE.  Castle doctrine seems closer to C/M.

Yeah, self-defense laws are probably like this:

C+: Stand Your Ground
C: Castle doctrine in effect
m: Reasonable self-defense allowed
L: Duty to retreat
L+: Duty to retreat once you've helped the criminals with whatever they were doing. 

[Ihlosi]

At L+ animal rights laws, attacking animals (even guard dogs) should be a crime.

Hah. I just found the place in the code where it does actually count killing animal at L+ animal rights as murder. TDTTOE ....

[Ihlosi]

The main issue really is that, with the sole exception of Gun Control, every issue turning more L either makes the game easier for you or doesn't make much of a difference.

Hm, with Flag Burning at C+, flying flags gives 10% extra secrecy.