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[-Nihil-]

What is really needed is a series of script writers for each race, and each race needs all its reactions condensed into their own separate files.  all the common reactions (reactions used in more than one race, clay reactions come to mind, but there is others, stone/bone/wood/gem craft shops, stone/bone/gem forges, archaeologists, etc.) should be grouped into individual raw files so that they can be identified as not race specific.  Orcs have that kind of problem, half their reactions are in the human, dwarf, and kobold files.  if they are to be shared they should be combined into separate files from the races.  maybe a reaction_clay.txt file that would do all the reactions involving clay shops.  similar issues for buildings, items, etc.

This would be such a help to the stuff I am working on. I am kind of just skipping that part for now. Several thousand custom reactions are added in the different entity files, while most are flagged with the mods they are a part of, there are a ton that aren't though.

The big issue that it's so hard to pick up one of the parts of this mod if you weren't the one that wrote it.

[Putnam]

I find that that would be wonderful and might make me consider making a race for this again. Last time I was stymied by the haphazard reaction setups (and learning that I don't like drow, whoops)

[Prismaa]

Whats happening around here? Is the mod still being worked on or? Haven't heard anything about Meph for long time.

[Amostubal]

Whats happening around here? Is the mod still being worked on or? Haven't heard anything about Meph for long time.

*waves* haven't heard from you recently.

Meph is in Ghana Africa heading down the ivory coast, last I checked his biking tour.  I produced masterwork 43.05 x64 for him, in his absence... its in a separate post here if you want to try it, link in my signature.  Its very stable, even fixed a lot of script errors that were constantly painting the dfhack console red.  Meph might not be back till mid summer. or later.

I find that that would be wonderful and might make me consider making a race for this again. Last time I was stymied by the haphazard reaction setups (and learning that I don't like drow, whoops)

*poke*, haven't seen you on here in awhile.  missed you too.

agree with you.  Its why I've stalled my personal revision of orcs, because everything is so entangled.  It needs to be cleaned up and straightened.  modifying one race shouldn't require you to work in 2 other races reactions files.  If I get the time I may better separate out the reaction pages and see if certain mods can't be split entirely out of the race reaction pages... It might not be effective, since I can't break the gui (I don't have the source code for it, If I did, I'd fix the gui issues).  so I'll have to see how much they are tied into the reaction pages.  but pulling group reactions like the ones I mentioned into separate file allows for 2 people to work on separate races and not be concerned about adverse affects on others. 

half the Kobold reactions are used by humans, dwarfs, and orcs...   they need to be more individualistic.  And I agree, I worked a bit to fix a few bugs in humans at one point then realized I hate humans, so I dropped it lol.

If this is something people really want... its something the project needs.  Ability to make it more accesible to modification and increase the interest of new blood ( or old lol, I don't care ) to work on the races.  then its something that needs to be done.  I't should be doable.

[-Nihil-]

Seems that what needs to be done is cleaning this up. Full documentation would be really useful but just having the raws organized would be enough for most people to help. Someone should probably come up with some guidelines for people who want to help(i.e. naming schemes, how new buildings and reactions should be handled, all kinds of other stuff I have no idea about). Then I guess everyone who is willing to help can work to make the current version adhere to those guidelines.

[DG123]

from the raws: reaction_dwarf_civ.txt

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_ADAMANTINE]
[NAME:Engrave adamantine runes (double damage)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_A][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_A]
[DESCRIPTION:Causing the enemy to take double damage by any weapon on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_BRONZE]
[NAME:Engrave bronze runes (crazed)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_B][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_B]
[DESCRIPTION:25% chance to make enemies crazed on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_COBALT]
[NAME:Engrave cobalt runes (bleeding)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_O][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_O]
[DESCRIPTION:Extra bleeding effect on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_COPPER]
[NAME:Engrave copper runes (nausea)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_E][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_E]
[DESCRIPTION:25% chance to make enemies sick on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_ORICHALCUM]
[NAME:Engrave orichalcum runes (insta-gib)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_R][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_R]
[DESCRIPTION:5% chance of instantly killing an enemy on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_IRON]
[NAME:Engrave iron runes (pain)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_I][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_I]
[DESCRIPTION:Extra pain effect on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_GOLD]
[NAME:Engrave gold runes (weaken)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_G][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_G]
[DESCRIPTION:Removes immunities like paralyze-immune, no-pain, no-fear, etc. on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_MITHRIL]
[NAME:Engrave mithril runes (sleep)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_H][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_H]
[DESCRIPTION:10% to knock enemies unconscious on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_SILVER]
[NAME:Engrave silver runes (anti-werebeast)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_V][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_V]
[DESCRIPTION:Triple damage to werebeasts on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_STEEL]
[NAME:Engrave steel runes (cough blood)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_S][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_S]
[DESCRIPTION:50% chance to make enemies cough blood on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_TITANIUM]
[NAME:Engrave titanium runes (paralyze)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_T][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_T]
[DESCRIPTION:10% chance to paralyze enemies on hit.]

[REACTION:SPATTER_ADD_WEAPON_TUNGSTEN]
[NAME:Engrave tungsten runes (slow)]
[BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_W][BUILDING:RUNESMITH:CUSTOM_ALT_W]
[DESCRIPTION:Adds 75% speed reduction on hit.]

yes several metals were renamed. i don't think any were fully removed.  other than rusty iron.
the iridium I think became orichalcum.

OH. I could have sworn Orichalcum was already a thing. But I could well be wrong.

I just noticed there's no Bifrost rune, which I find surprising. Also, the bloody Ice giants don't sell it when they show up as traders...

[Amostubal]

Seems that what needs to be done is cleaning this up. Full documentation would be really useful but just having the raws organized would be enough for most people to help. Someone should probably come up with some guidelines for people who want to help(i.e. naming schemes, how new buildings and reactions should be handled, all kinds of other stuff I have no idea about). Then I guess everyone who is willing to help can work to make the current version adhere to those guidelines.

well if that's the case... that can be my next project.... If I had to guess I could have it done by next weekend 10 days from now... I checked and it doesn't appear to be the reaction pages that have the page length changes, therefore they aren't corrupted by gui option changes.  I can't make serious changes to naming conventions (even though I really want too) as the current reaction names and building names are attached to the entity files and 2 of those (kobold and dwarf) become corrupted when the gui options change.  Its why I'm not really wanting to add too much or taking away anything in the system as it is. 

Its just one of those things that make me shrink to approach it...  I'll look at how doable it is... I'm not sure though about which approach is needed....
Do we separate out the reactions that are used by more than one race ... or do we split these reactions, and create separate reactions for each race... the later option is NOT doable, until the gui issue is figured out as that would require entity file changes...

OH. I could have sworn Orichalcum was already a thing. But I could well be wrong.

I just noticed there's no Bifrost rune, which I find surprising. Also, the bloody Ice giants don't sell it when they show up as traders...

I wasn't around then.
I couldn't find bifrost in the raws.

[-Nihil-]

Do we separate out the reactions that are used by more than one race ... or do we split these reactions, and create separate reactions for each race... the later option is NOT doable, until the gui issue is figured out as that would require entity file changes...

What makes the most sense to me would be to have files like so:

reaction_masterwork.txt
This would have reactions where all/most races would use them. For example, the elves may skip a bunch of the reactions from this file that have to do with wood. Ideally it would be easy to see which reactions a given race should or should not include from this file.

reaction_orc.txt
This would obviously have reactions that only the orcs use. If someone were to take over a given race they should not have to worry about breaking anything other than that race by messing with this file. If someone was making another slaver race and wanted to use the slave mechanics then they could copy and modify in to a new file with new names.

Some reactions may need to be split but we could leave those in the bottom of reaction_masterwork.txt for now under a big comment saying they should not be there forever.

That's my idea at least.

[DG123]

Hey, am I right in saying Warlock Fortress is no longer an option in the newer versions of DF?

Which version should I be using in order to play that?

Also, I'm a bit confused when it comes to exotic armour types. I recall there being lots of options like spiked armour and other stuff that sounds like it might be Warlock related.

Anyway, I know you can use a building to copy exotic items. But considering that those items aren't the right size for dwarves to wear, what's the point? Does copying it resize it to be suitable?

Also, is there a guide anywhere to the actual armour types? Because I have no idea what, if anything, would be better than plate armour. And yet considering the cost of three metal bars to make a copy, I assume there must be something worth copying?

[Rydel]

You'll need to use the old 34.11 version to play as Warlocks.
"No longer" is probably not the right word, though.  More like "Not currently" - It looks like Meph plans to add them back but hasn't gotten to them yet.

[Brutaka001]

You'd be surprised how many people look at this version of DF and think, "I can do something like that, not on as large a scale. I can make my own races with their own reactions." They look up how to create new races on the DF wiki and get something about the spider people made there for Adventure mode. They try their knowledge here to just edit buildings and their game messes up because none of the races are seperate from each other as they should. Almost ALL of these prospective modders are turned down just from that. We've had 2 people try to make new races for MDF before: The Naga and the Hivemind Wasps. Both had such potential that WDF itself would change if they were implemented. Naga were designed to flood their base at 1/7 - 2/7 water level because they needed it to live. They needed spawning pools to just keep producing children but the growth of a fort was so controllable that it was crazy. They had increased natural armor because they couldn't use the lower half of the armor scaling. Hivemind wasps had to captur invaders and "infect" them with their lava just to get the next generation. If you played the game too slow, 1/8th speed/ your fort died out before the next invasion came. They were unique in the fact that they NEEDED wood to pulp down to even make their end game materials. They grew their own weapons, but it tooks months to even think of it. The common wasp was a drone, so you wouldn't even get a combat ready individual until maybe 2 years in so you had to box yourself in until you could even start planning on training.

[Amostubal]

You'd be surprised how many people look at this version of DF and think, "I can do something like that, not on as large a scale. I can make my own races with their own reactions." They look up how to create new races on the DF wiki and get something about the spider people made there for Adventure mode. They try their knowledge here to just edit buildings and their game messes up because none of the races are seperate from each other as they should. Almost ALL of these prospective modders are turned down just from that. We've had 2 people try to make new races for MDF before: The Naga and the Hivemind Wasps. Both had such potential that WDF itself would change if they were implemented. Naga were designed to flood their base at 1/7 - 2/7 water level because they needed it to live. They needed spawning pools to just keep producing children but the growth of a fort was so controllable that it was crazy. They had increased natural armor because they couldn't use the lower half of the armor scaling. Hivemind wasps had to captur invaders and "infect" them with their lava just to get the next generation. If you played the game too slow, 1/8th speed/ your fort died out before the next invasion came. They were unique in the fact that they NEEDED wood to pulp down to even make their end game materials. They grew their own weapons, but it tooks months to even think of it. The common wasp was a drone, so you wouldn't even get a combat ready individual until maybe 2 years in so you had to box yourself in until you could even start planning on training.

yes I agree that the split of the races would be a very useful thing.  what I was considering was leaving all the race specific functions inside their own reaction_race.txt.  All that is used by multiple races will be separated out into individual files.  I'm going to group them by "style", things like the wood/stone/bone/gem crafters will be put into 2 files (a reaction_crafters and a building_crafters file) separate from the race files.  the goal is to reduce the race A using reactions in race B's file occurrence.

my biggest concern is humans.... they have so many reactions that are dropped all over the race files attached to their guilds... I'm going to work out a flowchart and verify the permitted buildings / reactions of the entity file match an actual building/reaction...I think humans have several permitted buildings/reactions that have been removed making it hard to follow through the raws.

I'm also looking at a different approach to killing the bug I have found with the gui.... Its definitely an odd bug.  I wish I had a source code on the gui to verify it, but I think that dwarves and Kobold options target a position into the file to make changes instead of a find and replace (Its being told to go to position X and rewrite the file with Y), it causes the length of the file to bounce around, eats into and out of anything put at the end of the file or near the areas that change.  I'm going to make a fake version of the dwarf and kobold entity files and see if I can figure out exactly what the options are doing when they change... but I bet that it will basically rewrite itself completely with a few options on and off (well the parts the options operate on).  It only really targets these 2, I think, because the succubus and humans have no options, and the orcs have been scripted mostly by outside scriptors, so the options had to be very specific in what they affected.

hopefully if I can get past all of that... we will have the ability to bring in more scriptors to rebuild this project to the glory of the days of old.  I want to see it possible for new races to be worked in with very little concern of what they are effecting.

You'll need to use the old 34.11 version to play as Warlocks.
"No longer" is probably not the right word, though.  More like "Not currently" - It looks like Meph plans to add them back but hasn't gotten to them yet.

I'd agree with that rydel... their files were removed from the pack... but I think it was mostly because of how much was broken between 34.11 to 42.06.

[Amostubal]

Its worse than that.... apparently with kobolds, dwarves, and humans(possibly orcs too, I didn't test it), the gui stores a copy of the raw entity file when the gui is started.  Then when an option is selected, it is editing the file in memory and then saving the new version over the old.  basically if you have the gui open, you can completely delete the entity_good_dwarf.txt file, make one option change that affects the file in memory, then the original version modified by the change is saved from memory.

the issue is that since its a buffer of the original file, lets say that you have a file that is just this line:
YES_INVENTOR[PERMITTED_BUILDING:INVENTOR]
If you turn it the option off it becomes this:
!YES_INVENTOR!PERMITTED_BUILDING:INVENTOR]
if you turn it back on... that's when the problem occurs.  the buffer is told to change it back to the original line, but because there is a length change going down the buffer ends up having extra characters left at the end of the buffer variable so the saved file comes out as:
YES_INVENTOR[PERMITTED_BUILDING:INVENTOR]]

it wouldn't be so bad if it was just the 1 tag change over an entire file.  but considering every tag like this occurs multiple times and every time one is changed it adds or subtracts to the length of thee file... playing with the options a lot gives you this at the end of the file:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

##
#####################################################################################################
#################################
#################################
#################################
##############################################
###################
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######################
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################################

#####################################################################
###############
################
####
29###################################################################################################################################################
30###################################################################################################################################################
#######
#######################
30###################################################################################################################################################
#######################
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#################
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#########

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#



##################################
30###################################################################################################################################################
#####################
#############################
#################################
#################################
#########################################

the good thing is... I can remove those tags when the gui is not running.  then load the gui and it wont re add the tags (as best as I can tell) back to the file.  if you reduce them down to only 1 tag each (possible in most cases) then the damage to the file is reduced(1 tag would only copy the last character, so you would just end up with a series of \n as that is the last character in the file, not a big deal).  If done properly, the editing of the entity files is possible, meaning they can be cleaned up, edited, and made more "readable", standardized etc.  but it will be painstaking endeavor.  Well its time to deal with RL, I'll look into it more on the other side.

[DG123]

Can anyone tell me which the most effective ranged weapons are? I assume a basic crossbow isn't great. Currently I'm using siege crossbows. But I don't know how they compare to javelin throwers, for example. I used to think javelin throwers effectively were siege crossbows but now they are separate items.

In an unrelated note I have the nasty feeling I may have generated a world in which my fortress will never get sieged. I have a pretty large fortress but there's no sign of a single goblin yet. Just a cyclops and a werebeast.

[PiCroft]

I'm having major issues with "Drop off inaccessible" spam for no apparent reason. I simply cannot norrow down the cause.

I'm not using burrows at all, in fact, its cropping up before I've even mined my first z-level. It spams so much that it seems like my dwarves end up doing nothing, presumably because they are getting confused.

I'm getting errors in Dfhack, but I'm not using it manually for anything:

Code: [Select]

stack traceback:
        ...3)\Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/modtools/item-trigger.lua:116: in function 'getitemType'
        ...3)\Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/modtools/item-trigger.lua:126: in function 'handler'
        ...3)\Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/modtools/item-trigger.lua:166: in function 'equipHandler'
        ...3)\Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/modtools/item-trigger.lua:175: in function <...3)\Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/modtools/item-trigger.lua:169>
Whenever I get these drop-off spams, I get this message spammed in Dfhack console.

I've no idea what's causing it. The spam is bad enough. but it feels like there's something more, since it seems to kill off my dwarves ability to perform new jobs. I also have no idea what it is they could be searching for.

I have a theory that it's caused by building wooden floors with the "standardised wood" setting turned on that turns all wood into generic rough logs, but it occurs frequently even when I haven't built any floors.

Its rendered the game unplayable and it's a shame because I really wanted to try this mod.