Hey, Meph. I'm playing the latest masterwork and I'm having some trouble with my clay industry. I have produced boulders of "silty clay", but cannot sieve them or use them directly in the pottery. Also, I have "silty clay loam" nearby that cannot be collected (does not count as clay in the zones selector). Any idea what's going on here?
If you really want to know whats going on here... check inside.... its a lot of reading as I cruised the raws for you.
from the raws:
[BUILDING:POTTERY:CUSTOM_ALT_A]<-Dwarf building
[BUILDING:BRICKOVEN_KOBOLD:NONE]<- Kobold building
[BUILDING:WORKSHOP_KOBOLD:NONE]<- Human building
secondly the entity file must have these reactions permitted:
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_SANDY_CLAY_LOAM]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_SILTY_CLAY_LOAM]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_SANDY_LOAM]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_SILT_LOAM]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_LOAMY_SAND]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_LOAM]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CLEAN_SILT]
Dwarves do!
Kobolds do which they should since all the reactions are suggested as tied to kobolds.
Humans don't.... and why I do not know why... I'm not even sure if the building is functional... its one of those upgrade shop things, and I didn't even go far enough to verify that, but I have no reason to believe that it does if this main function isn't permitted in reactions.
Seeing that some people say they can't pick it up here's probably why from inorganic_stone_soil:
[INORGANIC:SILTY_CLAY]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SOIL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:silty clay][DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:142]
[SOIL][REACTION_CLASS:CLAY]
[SOLID_DENSITY:1210] SCS = 5/50/45
[MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
[INORGANIC:CLAY_LOAM]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SOIL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:clay loam][DISPLAY_COLOR:4:7:1][TILE:142]
[SOIL][REACTION_CLASS:CLAY]
[SOLID_DENSITY:1320] SCS = 33/34/33
[MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
[INORGANIC:SANDY_CLAY_LOAM]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SOIL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:sandy clay loam][DISPLAY_COLOR:4:6:1][TILE:142]
[SOIL][AQUIFER]
[SOLID_DENSITY:1410] SCS = 60/25/15
[INORGANIC:SILTY_CLAY_LOAM]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SOIL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:silty clay loam][DISPLAY_COLOR:7:6:0][TILE:142]
[SOIL][AQUIFER]
[SOLID_DENSITY:1290] SCS = 10/30/60
its not set as a [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT:...] I wouldn't put INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE try INORGANIC:SILTY_CLAY_LOAM ... didn't test it, but I'm sure that will make it acceptable as basic clay to be accessed by a collect clay command. Peat which is in a separate file from these has a similar line. but not capable of being used as clay in any of the clay shops. it should then be able to be sieved by the above reactions... if you are kobold or dwarf.
additionally that change will require a generate new world as its adding a token to the file.
if you are human you need to add the [PERMIT_REACTION:...] group to your entity file.
if you are succubus or orc, you will need to add the [PERMIT_BUILDING:POTTERY] and [PERMIT_REACTION:...] group to your entity file.
in either case, you will probably want to be playing without aquifers... as these layers are highly suspect to be aquifer layers usually and will flood, making gathering clay impossible in the first place. Even if you clear the aquifer through various means, it generally will be by blocking off the "clay" wall which you will need to gather the clay. hmmm maybe by having it drain into a lower aquifer zone, cavern, or into a tube to a fortified outer wall... I digress there's many ways to access aquifer zones without walling... but its a long and hard process that would take most embark sites months to be effective... and usually requires you to pierce the aquifer first to get beneath it and create drain passages... A lot of cheating required to do it effectively and efficiently. your better off seeking other sources of clay, or sand if that's what you're after.
for your second problem of not being ably to use silty clay.... well that tells me you are in a dwarf, kobold, or human embark... do you see the difference between these three reactions:
How the orcs make a clay jug:
[REACTION:CLAY_JUG_ORC]
[NAME:Goblins shape a clay jug]
[BUILDING:MUCKRAKER_GHETTO_ORC:CUSTOM_J]
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE][HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:clay:FIRED_MAT]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT][FUEL]
How the Succubus make a clay jug:
[REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_JUG]
[NAME:make clay jug]
[BUILDING:KILN:CUSTOM_J]
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:clay:FIRED_MAT]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:POTTERY]
How the Dwarves, Kobolds, and Humans make a clay jug:
[REACTION:DWARF_MAKE_CLAY_JUG]
[NAME:Shape jug from clay]
[CATEGORY:POTTERY_CLAY]
[CATEGORY_NAME:Clay Forming (Earthenware)]
[CATEGORY_KEY:CUSTOM_C]
[CATEGORY_DESCRIPTION:Form items from a clay boulder. These items are made of soft clay and can not be used until fired in a kiln.]
[BUILDING:BRICKOVEN_KOBOLD:NONE][BUILDING:POTTERY:NONE]
[BUILDING:WORKSHOP_KOBOLD:NONE]
[BUILDING:WORKSHOP_KOBOLD:NONE]
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:CLAY][HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT]was shaped_mat
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG_FAKE:INORGANIC:GREENWARE_CLAY]
[SKILL:POTTERY]
besides being a bit showy... I never liked clay for most things because of how difficult it can be in dwarves, kobolds, and humans... fake it/dry it/glaze it etc etc etc I've been a potter, you can add all the steps you want to it... It takes a lot more than what is being described in any of the raws... but I digress, thats another argument.
The reaction for Succubus says:
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT][PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:clay:FIRED_MAT]
Which basically means we don't care use any boulder that has FIRED_MAT... and don't let the player detail which it is... basically this is so generic that it will make jars out of peat and also operate to make stoneware and porcelain... but you can't select which stone the unit will pick up so its going to be a surprise. no surprise this reaction would pick up a silty clay boulder and get to work on it.
The reaction for Orcs says the same thing, except: (and granted I think I modified it)
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]
Which like the above reaction allows the unit to make earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain... and peat items too lol. But you can select in the details the "FIRED_MAT" boulder of your choice, so you could select silty clay and it would work or not select anything and it might choose it if it wanted to.
The reaction for dwarves, kobolds, and humans have an error most foul... most insidious... besides adding in the greenware step which is just silly to me:
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:CLAY]
That one word was to force the group to split up all the clay materials into their basic constituent parts separating the actual clay... but with out a silty clay reaction to do so, you will never be able to use silty clay in an embark with this reaction.... if its not pure CLAY its not clay at all and this affects humans the most severe as they don't have any of the separation reactions permitted.
So to split Silty clay which is the one that is missing you need a reaction like this:
[REACTION:CLEAN_SILT_CLAY]
[NAME:Sieve silty clay(2)]
[DESCRIPTION:Takes 2 silty clay boulders and splits the components into silt and clay.]
[DESCRIPTION:]
[DESCRIPTION:Uses pottery skill.]
[BUILDING:POTTERY:CUSTOM_ALT_B]
[BUILDING:BRICKOVEN_KOBOLD:NONE]
[BUILDING:WORKSHOP_KOBOLD:NONE]
[REAGENT:silt loam:2:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SILTY_CLAY]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:CLAY]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SILT]
[SKILL:POTTERY]
add that reaction to the same area the others are in reactions_dwarf, add permit_reaction to the entity file for your race and regenerate a world and the next time you have that material you can do that.
My suggestion, if you don't want to regenerate a world with the added permissions from above....
just edit the reaction_kobold.txt file in your save folder and replace all of:
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:CLAY]
with:
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]
and you will be able to use the silty clay as normal... and it shouldn't require a new world generation as your not removing or adding tokens.
if you read all the above and wanted to really know...
How to really be accurate in clay....
1. find an area that has clay deposits, these can be various colors from dark red to grey determined by impurities and presence of sand, silt, loam, water and other contaminants.
2. process the clay to remove unwanted impurities... this can take days to weeks determined upon what they are but yes a sieve system as clay is thicker than sand silt or loam you basically run water and clay over a very fine mesh, and shake until none of the later is left and its flowing down river... we don't end up with sand bags and silt/loam boulders.....silly.
3. the resulting sludge of clay is then processed with a press to remove access moisture in the material... some water needs to be present to shape the product but not as much as is there after cleaning the clay. if you don't have a press well you lay it out on a thin sheet or hard surface such as rock or wood in the sunlight, avoid rain. you could also lightly bake it at low temperatures to force the water out... but its not recommended, resulting clay will be harder to shape and more brittle and fracture easier when completed.
4. Shape the project.... using hand pressure and little water or by pounding the clay over/into a castform etc determined by the project. most modern ceramics are actually not clay of this format they use a very wet clay/silt mix or kaolin dust well mixed with wate to make a slurry that flows easily, usually that is poured into a form/mold that is then rotated until all sides are coated, same process though from here out. this is greenware as some call it, because it commonly has a green hue until after it is fired.
5. Set out to dry. direct sunlight clear low humid day best, but a humidity controlled drying room at a moderately warm temp is good. the product must lose around half of its water content slowly to keep it from cracking or deforming in a kiln. the poured form/molds usually go through the process in a drying room, as direct sunlight wont do a thing for these products.
5a. if the product is done in a form/mold, it is then removed from the form and any deformities(usually a thin tag where the forms meet, is repaired. This is the last step for it to be ready for the kiln.
6. initial firing. So you put the object in a Kiln and get it heated up for several hours. this sets the clay giving it strength and forcing the last of the water out of the finished product. If the product is to wet it will deform under the heat or bubbles will appear. afterwords this is an earthenware good if you didn't get over 1200 C and used generic "from the local river bed" clay; otherwise the clay should vitrify at 1300+ and becomes stoneware, or if you used kaolin then its porcelain. The game uses fire clay because this is a clay specification that vitrifies and remains heat resistant at around 1500+ usually 1700 easily. they are usually used a the stone insulation of a Kiln wall... and Kaolin and Kaolinite are actually considered fire clay; in addition porcelain is considered a stoneware.
7. the product is then cleaned off, verified for no structural failures (this is the point you now you have done a good job... starting potters send their projects to the shard bin at this point more often then not).
8. Paint is applied, allowed to dry.
9. glaze is applied and allowed to dry.(the glaze almost always is opaque making the object look funky and changing the paint if its not dry first).
10. a last run through the Kiln gets the glaze up to temp that it turns into a transparent coating and seals the clay underneath making it water proof.
11. cooling and resting phase. a product should be allowed to cool and rest in a non humid low temp room for around 2 to 3 days before use, as the strains of use to quickly after creation may cause it to catastrophically fail.
I worked in a family owned pottery shop from 1988 to 1992. Plates, cups, mugs, goblets, figurines, statues... hand crafted, turn table, and form poured. my biggest project was a set of 4 lions, 2 male and 2 female, that stood 3 feet tall a piece created using poured molds. Due to the size they were poured, dried, glass eyes placed in the piece and clean up, fired.... internal poured, dried, fired two times again to give it enough thickness to withstand the later work. Hand painted, dried, glazed and given a final fire. They were then internally poured with concrete and concrete round form base approximately 1 yard circular 3 inches thick, upside down in a support frame, and left to set. The base was then polished smooth. the 4 pieces sold for 2,000 each on a contract. We actually started with 8 only 7 survived and the best 4 went to the contract and the other 3 had minor defects and were sold from a store front for less than the contract price. The shear weight and size of the projects required 2 to 3 people to move them. It took a month of work and 5 of us to accomplish the task on schedule... non factory produced pottery on demand can be serious work... One that is dying fast in the U.S. today as factories mass produce imitation pottery (they use mold machines, massive kilns and drying rooms, conveyors, robotic painters, additives to strengthen the product and decrease down time between kiln and drying, kaolin dust/slurry to create porcelain in machines reminiscent of a bottle factory, all to speed up the work, things that aren't cost effective on a small scale). Now the 5 guys it took to make those lions could over see a line that makes 100s of them a day, 1000s in a month and get paid pennies on the dollar for what they would of been paid 30 years ago. Welcome to the modern world.
The argument is that a good potter knows that even with all the time it takes to make an item, most of it is sitting and waiting... officially every item takes way less then a day to make from start to finish as far as actual time the worker handles the product. a good worker may handle an object the size of a cup, 2 hours? 3? if hes really putting detail and effort into painting and shaping it 4? 5?... the rest of the process is wait while drying, wait while firing, wait while cooling, wait while glaze/paint drying, wait while firing and cooling again... If we tie up units in these wait times well then they wont produce nearly the same amount of goods as a person in the real world can produce. In reality a good potter will probably have 20 items in a kiln firing while having 100 items drying on a shelf and shape or paint another 10 to 20 while he's waiting to move a dried item to the kiln or a fired item to the cooling rack, etc. etc. an efficient potter doesn't waste his dry and kiln time standing there staring at it. So the lower step quicker item creation process is more accurate to the reality of a potter moving through his work with efficiency. The cook doesn't waste his time while the turkey is in the oven. He moves on to other items that he wants to prepare and cook, the grill can hold more then one hamburger patty! The attempt to be more accurate to reality is actually breaking the process into the guy who makes 1 goblet in 3 days like a newbie potter. Why isn't he making batches of 20 at a time and using his spare time for other stuff.... Why are we sitting around waiting on the "paint" to dry?
Author
Topic: ☼MASTERWORK☼ (44.12) - DF2019 Updated 24th Nov 2021 (Read 946092 times)