Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Yes. Text gets cut off too often.

No. I dont care/like the names as they are.

Dont you have anything better to do then making such tiny adjustements?

[Billy Jack]

4e

I don't know if this is intended by the Apostle of Armok is -100% on gaining experience in everything but praying.  He is one useless dwarf.

[Repseki]

I'm pretty sure that is intended. But they aren't completely useless after a certain point.

Build the Temple, train on repeat until Legendary, sacrifice enemies (mutilated corpses), profit. Had my military commander in full set of the Armok armor in one fort.

Having some of the purely flavor items do something with itemsyndrome might make it something better though.

[Meph]

I'm pretty sure that is intended. But they aren't completely useless after a certain point.

Build the Temple, train on repeat until Legendary, sacrifice enemies (mutilated corpses), profit. Had my military commander in full set of the Armok armor in one fort.

Having some of the purely flavor items do something with itemsyndrome might make it something better though.

It is planned. full sets should give massive boni. just waiting for an official, stable dfhack r4.

[Repseki]

Sounds good.

[mahrgell]

No comments about the military training? (got lost on end of last page)

But another thing: original LNP had an option to turn on/off labors of skills immigrants have. This somehow is not in the options in Masterwork, it seems. Should be added back, nothing is more annoying then a new dabbling immigrant wasting valuable materials because the legendary armorsmith just took a drink

[Meph]

No comments about the military training? (got lost on end of last page)

But another thing: original LNP had an option to turn on/off labors of skills immigrants have. This somehow is not in the options in Masterwork, it seems. Should be added back, nothing is more annoying then a new dabbling immigrant wasting valuable materials because the legendary armorsmith just took a drink

I had not chance to test, and wont have it for several weeks... so I cant say anything to this massive skill gain, but you are the only person reporting it... Therapist shows 200% skill learn rate, as it should be.

[mahrgell]

Yes, but even in vanilla it is rather easy to train dwarfs to legendary in 1.5 years by just letting em train. Your changes to sparring and the 200% skillrate just make it so basically every militarymember will be legendary after 3-6 month. If all start from scratch, it takes about 6 month, once you have some dwarfs with experience, they share their wisdom almost immediatly

[Meph]

And still most people complain about their military being too weak. I cant balance it for each type of player. You say you are getting legendary fighters that murder entire sieges too easily, while other players lock themselves in, out of fear, then get killed by 1-2 ambushes. Its not really something I can 'fix' for everyone. Depends on the skill level of the player.

[mahrgell]

To my feel, what usually causes that feeling is the huge difference in efficiency of sparring vs. efficiency of those "whatever session"
While the first drastically improve the skills and attributes of all participants, sessions just help stragglers to catch up a bit. Having an even skilled squad with 8 ppl having the same low skills leads to them teaching each other all the times stuff they already know, not progressing at all.
Having 2man squads leads to them sparring for weeks without break, immediately maxing out on everything. (and it gets faster and faster, since DF seems to adjust the XP you get for the power of your opponent... even in sparring)

So yeah, before i knew that, i also ended with squads full of trashdwarves never gaining skill...

I'm not sure what is moddable about those training behaviors. Things i would look for would be: (i'm only looking at melee here, i feel the XP-behaviour for ranged combat works well)

- even more improved effect of sessions
--not sure how effective teacher and student skill are, but maybe those could be raised, so any dwarf born/immigrating starts at 5 and skillrate raised even further then it is right now

- better selection of skills for sessions
--a lvl2 kicker otherwise legendary dwarf teaching his new companions kicking is a waste of time... if he would share his fighting or other skills it would be much more useful... but i guess this is hardcoded and can't be affected
--would it be possible via dfhack to actually check if a dwarf is starting a session in a skill that is below X(let's say 5 or and cancel the session, so the dwarfs immediately start some new (hopefully more efficient) training?

- gain attributes in sessions
-- not sure if there is a marginal attributegain already, but anyway, most comes from sparring...
-- probably hardcoded and can't be changed

- reduce gains from sparring
-- the gains seem slow at start, but soon spiral out of hand, when the "power of opponent"-XPmodifier kicks in... if that modifier could be reduced it would be great... but i guess that there is a fixed way how the combatpower of a creature is calculated, that can't be changed... If it somehow could be changed, it would be great. (so a sparring a lvl8 dwarf gives slightly more XP then sparring a lvl2 dwarf, but not such a massive difference as it is now)
-- otherwise reduce gains from sparring in general (could this be changed? Or is there a way to teel the game, that a dwarf is not harder to battle then a rat?)

- shorten sparring sessions while making them more likely in bigger squads
-- making them more likely in bigger squads would even the odds between ppl that know that squads with >2 dwarves are bad and ppl that don't know that - not sure if this could be affected. Above mentioned idea for a dfhack intervention to cancel useless sessions could effectively do that
-- right now it feels, once 2 dwarfs start sparring they will only stop 20 combatlogpages later...

- somehow penalize small squads
-- negative thoughts, some way to affect training rate, whatever you can imagine...
-- this is alternative to some of the ways i described above to make larger squads more competetive


- improve gains from fighting invaders of all kinds
-- right now leaving the fortress to slay 12 goblins is XPwise much worse then sparring for the same time with your buddy. Seriously, this shouldn't be the case. XP from killing things should be the biggest factor. So you are forced to fight stuff, and those lucky survivors live to tell the tale and teach the new replacements. Having perfect warmachines (like my dwarves) that have never "fought" anything but their trainingbuddy is odd
-- this could be expanded to savage animals, but i would not raise the XP for normal animals, since i feel like hunting animals with the military is kinda boring and wasting a players time

I guess that would be it. So big question is, how does the game calculate how much XP you get for attacking a target? Would it be possible to simply change the XP gained from fighting dwarves/invaders?

[Meph]

The suggestions themselves are good, but they are more fitting for the suggestions board for the real DF. Not a mod, because all this is hardcoded, and Toady One himself would have to alter this.

All I can do is change the total rate it which you learn. 50%, 100%, 200%... but I cant say: Sparring trains 50%, and real combat trains 100%... I cant access this code.

[Urist McTeellox]

All I can do is change the total rate it which you learn. 50%, 100%, 200%... but I cant say: Sparring trains 50%, and real combat trains 100%... I cant access this code.

This would be an awesome thing to integrate into the config program. I tend to like my games ridiculously hard, so I'd happily opt for regular citizens having nerfed training rates, and military castes having only modest (100% or 125%) training gains. This also means individual players can select how easy or hard they'd like their military efforts to be.

~ T

[Meph]

But there is a HARDER LEARNING button, it sets all learn rates from 100% to 50%. But castes still boost it to 200%, which is the reason why they are so important.

[Godlysockpuppet]

But there is a HARDER LEARNING button, it sets all learn rates from 100% to 50%. But castes still boost it to 200%, which is the reason why they are so important.

What meph said I took out the circus with 2 well trained squads of legion dwarves clad in steel-mithril-wolfram mixed armour.

[thistleknot]

I think making glue more easily available would be nice.  I guess I should embark with more plant types that support it

[Repseki]

Start with some bloated tubers and you shouldn't have any real trouble.

At least not any that isn't involved with stockpiling, since the glue from tubers comes out as a plant material instead of (library supplies).

If you want to avoid that, you can go for spore trees, which can be stockpiled since they are a wood material tool. You'll have to get a Herbalist up first though.