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Poll

Should Scaleplate/Chitinplate/Shellplate reduced to "Scale/Chitin/Shell", and "Rigid X-plate" to "X-plate". It would shorten names a lot.

Yes. Text gets cut off too often.
No. I dont care/like the names as they are.
Dont you have anything better to do then making such tiny adjustements?

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Author Topic: [DWARF] - Discussion & Suggestions - NEW POLL!  (Read 84233 times)

Gamerlord

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #465 on: August 11, 2013, 08:38:45 am »



He. Using single bones for custom reactions. :)
HALLE-FREAKING-LUJAH!

silentdeth

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #466 on: August 11, 2013, 09:59:01 am »

He. Using single bones for custom reactions. :) The only problem I see is that legendary bonecarvers will make masterwork bone stacks that give bad thoughts when you make items from them.

Don't think that counts as them getting destroyed. I might be wrong, but I've not noticed any unhappiness from using masterwork mercenary supplies.

Poor tusky, it gave its life for science.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 10:01:47 am by silentdeth »
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Meph

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #467 on: August 11, 2013, 10:19:33 am »



Oh, and the herbalists laboratory is finished, the architect and researcher are done, the greatforge and inventor or more or less done (just have to play a fort with them to see the ingame balancing), the megabeast cell is half finished, and... shock... the timberyard is gone. Instead the tree-farming moved to the sawmill, and a tiny "wood cutting block" has been introduced, very cheap, one of the first buildings you should make, to cut rough logs and split them into timber planks. Tree-farming has been improved by adding farmable spore-trees, crystal trees, glass thorn, shadethorn (cavern lvl3), feather (good) and glumprong (evil). The herbalist can do all kinds of things with those.
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Gamerlord

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #468 on: August 11, 2013, 10:22:40 am »

I can deal with the garrison; overall it's a square. Anyway, the monastery; can we make dwarven shaolin monks and stuff?

Meph

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #469 on: August 11, 2013, 10:43:35 am »

Well, the Apostles of Armok are no pacifistic buddhist monks... I thought about it, moving the wrestler military training to the monks, but then again, maybe I dont. They shouldnt be frontline soldiers, but rather keep the fortress together against supernatural threats and warlocks.

11x11 is the same dimension that your cursor jumps when you use shift+arrow, hope that helps with the fort design. :)
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Gamerlord

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #470 on: August 11, 2013, 10:44:37 am »

IMMENSELY.

silentdeth

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #471 on: August 11, 2013, 11:02:29 am »

It's wall 'o text time. I have a few more suggestions and comments about things I've ran into in the game. Again this is with version 3c. (Is there a better suggestion thread, *shrug* You read this one.)

Crematorium:
  • Burn anything made out of cloth or leather, I can control the input with this reaction via stockpile links.
  • Burn worn leather/cloth items, perhaps a different reaction for each level of wear. Alternatively, just a reaction that burns anything that is worn/tattered/threadbare.
  • Burn rotten food, fish, meat to ash. Mostly to get rid of the items.

Weather control: Remove the skill requirement. The only guys that are machine operators are my military, and when I need the rain it is because they are outside burning to death.

Friendly races, when off, turn on alternative for their gear, IE weather control device be researchable. May be moot now with the trade workshops.

Slaughterhouse:
  • Bonemeal reaction doesn't match crematorium reaction for bodyparts, so I can burn things I cannot grind up. Should be the same reagent, so I can grind up goblins and such too.
  • Grind Bone Bush into bonemeal, or at mill?

Mines, Turrets, Wards, ect. Remove MAXAGE token.

[IT_FORBIDDEN:NOEMOTION] tag in healing spell means it doesn't work on people who are under the effect of an anti-tantrum syndrome, given they remove emotions.

All hotkeys for libraries are capitalized. Why? Suggest lower case for normal books, uppercase, same letter, for the masterwork version.

Magic, not tried it, but maybe make it so you have to research new levels/spells, like the random experiment thing. Say n spells per level and they can only learn one, which would be somewhat random. Would keep everyone from just making a bunch of the 'best' mage.

Fill magma tanker, and melt blocks into slade have same hotkey.

If possible add categories to the glass furnace based on glass type, too many items to scroll through. 

No fill magma tanker reaction in magma rune weaponry/armory.

Gnomish Artificer, make magma powered? It is a pretty high tech building.

Metals with the special token will be specifically requested for use in weapon artifacts. This is a bad thing when I have 180 guys with weaponsmithing as their highest moodable skill and every single one want orichalcum, very rare and not what I want them to use when I have plenty of bifrost laying around. Remove the special tag from that and I always get them wanted welded titanium, not a good metal for weapons. Had to remove the special tag from everything but bifrost and candy for them to want bifrost. Has to be a better way to prevent them from trading it than making it demanded for artifacts.

Is it possible to have legendary variants of weapons for artifacts? If not, can it be.

Suggestion: A type poison for underground things, like a underground version of greenskin bane. Some kind of bottled sunshine that give something like nauseated from the sun effect.

Make underground races spawn with cave adaptation to give dwarfs a bit of a bonus fighting them on surface.

No food/drink buffs should also remove alcohol dependency to prevent slowdowns. If that would work.

Magma Steam Engine: Add reactions, use 1 tear and 1 blood of Armok to run indefinitely. What else are you gonna do with all those extra tears and bloods?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Possible bug: resurrected people seem hang out where they died, or maybe they just like to hang out near magma steam engines? There is a meeting zone, and they have no job.

You have an option called harder learning which decreases the rate a dwarf gains experience. Then you have "Smoke Effects" stones that serve no purpose, but add an additional product to the reaction. Experience gain is based on the number of products created.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Created gems from screw press and alchemist should be rough.

Fine clay blocks, value is too high, makes it more valuable then some metals.
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Nuttycompa

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #472 on: August 11, 2013, 12:03:40 pm »

Will guildhall replace the good old dwarfguilds?
Personally,I like the old desinge more than this one,t hey have a feeling of some sort of society or union of the worker.
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Meph

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #473 on: August 11, 2013, 12:50:37 pm »

It's wall 'o text time. I have a few more suggestions and comments about things I've ran into in the game. Again this is with version 3c. (Is there a better suggestion thread, *shrug* You read this one.)

Crematorium:
  • Burn anything made out of cloth or leather, I can control the input with this reaction via stockpile links.
  • Burn worn leather/cloth items, perhaps a different reaction for each level of wear. Alternatively, just a reaction that burns anything that is worn/tattered/threadbare.
  • Burn rotten food, fish, meat to ash. Mostly to get rid of the items.
Which cloth/leather items are missing? And I cant target worn items or rotten items, sorry.
Weather control: Remove the skill requirement. The only guys that are machine operators are my military, and when I need the rain it is because they are outside burning to death.
Will be magic most likely. If dfhack allows me custom weather, it might warrant an own workshop, but I'd say give these to the elemental altar. simple air magic.

Slaughterhouse:
  • Bonemeal reaction doesn't match crematorium reaction for bodyparts, so I can burn things I cannot grind up. Should be the same reagent, so I can grind up goblins and such too.
  • Grind Bone Bush into bonemeal, or at mill?
bone bush to bonemeal I actually have done already, in the new Herbalist. I can do the corpse to bonemeal, no problem.

Mines, Turrets, Wards, ect. Remove MAXAGE token.
will be done.
[IT_FORBIDDEN:NOEMOTION] tag in healing spell means it doesn't work on people who are under the effect of an anti-tantrum syndrome, given they remove emotions.
weird, I'll have a look.
All hotkeys for libraries are capitalized. Why? Suggest lower case for normal books, uppercase, same letter, for the masterwork version.
Because they had ESSAY-reaction in addition to the books. These had the low-caps letters.
Magic, not tried it, but maybe make it so you have to research new levels/spells, like the random experiment thing. Say n spells per level and they can only learn one, which would be somewhat random. Would keep everyone from just making a bunch of the 'best' mage.
Sounds like a good idea, but also a lot of work changing something I just did. I keep the current system for now, because kobolds have the "random-spell-learning" that you describe, and I rather use two different systems for different races.
Fill magma tanker, and melt blocks into slade have same hotkey.
noted.
If possible add categories to the glass furnace based on glass type, too many items to scroll through. 
Cant mod the glass furnace. If you mean the glass forge: It is sorted by category, but I cant do sub-menus, like the vanilla forge. not moddable.
No fill magma tanker reaction in magma rune weaponry/armory.
noted
Gnomish Artificer, make magma powered? It is a pretty high tech building.
It will change next update.
Metals with the special token will be specifically requested for use in weapon artifacts. This is a bad thing when I have 180 guys with weaponsmithing as their highest moodable skill and every single one want orichalcum, very rare and not what I want them to use when I have plenty of bifrost laying around. Remove the special tag from that and I always get them wanted welded titanium, not a good metal for weapons. Had to remove the special tag from everything but bifrost and candy for them to want bifrost. Has to be a better way to prevent them from trading it than making it demanded for artifacts.

No idea... moods I cant affect. The special tag I used to avoid people trading these materials, or sieges showing up with them. Traders would randomly bring bifrost and you could order it... defeating the purpose of it entirely. Same with the rest. I really have no idea how to control this behavior. One of urist da vincis scripts can help, but I need a modified version of it...

Is it possible to have legendary variants of weapons for artifacts? If not, can it be.
you mean the one from the weaponry? Yeah, sure.

Suggestion: A type poison for underground things, like a underground version of greenskin bane. Some kind of bottled sunshine that give something like nauseated from the sun effect.
good idea. I can also do poisons against evil/good, but might go with "blessings" for this and put it in the religion part.

Make underground races spawn with cave adaptation to give dwarfs a bit of a bonus fighting them on surface.
Cant be done, cave adaption I cant affect. I can use it as a counter_trigger for my own interactions though. I'll have a look at it, but seriously, how often does that happen? I think it would be a lot more fun the other way around, weaken the invaders that go underground... because its the domain of the dwarves and they get home-turf advantage. Human enters dark underground tile, gets slower because he cant see well, as an example. Good Idea. :)

No food/drink buffs should also remove alcohol dependency to prevent slowdowns. If that would work.
Wont work.Cant affect that.
Magma Steam Engine: Add reactions, use 1 tear and 1 blood of Armok to run indefinitely. What else are you gonna do with all those extra tears and bloods?
 I had a similar thought... they never get used up. I wanted to change the reaction to have a 5% or 10% chance to use them up, and add a second reaction that uses them up competely for something awesome. And a reaction to make obsidian, because water+magma...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Possible bug: resurrected people seem hang out where they died, or maybe they just like to hang out near magma steam engines? There is a meeting zone, and they have no job.

Dwarves hang out where they want and something happened. I had soldiers go outside to were they killed people to hang out.

You have an option called harder learning which decreases the rate a dwarf gains experience. Then you have "Smoke Effects" stones that serve no purpose, but add an additional product to the reaction. Experience gain is based on the number of products created.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I totally know that. Most people dont... if I'd tell them that most "harder learning" is negated by it, and the dwarves learn the normal rate anyway, they wouldnt believe me... Placebo Effect, if it says harder learning, it must be harder.

I might remove the dust effects once I update the UI... I dont know yet. I rather like them. Maybe turn them off by default and add a note saying: Might affect skillgain.


Created gems from screw press and alchemist should be rough.

True.

Fine clay blocks, value is too high, makes it more valuable then some metals.

Clay has no value assigned, but it uses the soil template. And that has value:1. I cant make it lower, except with 0 value... or did you mean the stone/eathernware items? These I can affect.

Nuttycompa: Nothing will be replaced, its just a new look for the same building. I dont know if I keep this one or use the new one... Its just that I made the current design when I made a building for each guild (13 workshops, too many, so the idea got scrapped) and I simply used the MerchantsGuild building design for the Guildhall. The design I posted now is more about all guilds, with the little storeroom to store the money that you pay, the little room for the apprentice to live in, and the main hall where you can select your guild from the list. Its sometimes hard to design with only so few tiles. ;)
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Z1000000m

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #474 on: August 11, 2013, 01:06:05 pm »

Meph, please take care to make any weirdo collosuem components fireproof. Maybe also consider making summons not building destroyers. Rebuilding this thing after each fight is starting to get on my nerves.

Also, cant you just make the bone stacks not have quality levels to prevent tantrums?
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Meph

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #475 on: August 11, 2013, 01:40:33 pm »

The bone stack item is actually a helm. Just... dont ask why. It is. So no, it gets quality modifiers, I cant change that.

Colosseum is fireproof (that was an old bug, when I enabled autosyndrome for the first time), but the building destroyer is a valid complaint. Dragonfire-breath enemies I guess as well...  so no more megabeasts of that sort from the colosseum, is noted.

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jimboo

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #476 on: August 11, 2013, 02:27:58 pm »


 - Making a two-handed weapon requires 1 scabbard (tool from craftsdwarf/forge), 1 weapon hilt (tool from craftsdwarf/forge), 1 unit of leather (for the hilt-wrapping) and either a weapon blade or weapon head (tool from greatforge).

Scabbards for 2h weapons? That doesn't make sense. They are mostly for only swords. A big 2h hammer in a scabbard? That just makes my brain hurt.
To me this seems like a really bad idea. Not only is it an arbitrary increase in difficulty, it would increase the tedium involved in making weapons as well as the stockpile management, something that is already pretty poor.

If the problem is people are only using one item, or a few items, then the process to make the items isn't the issue. It is the items usefulness relative to the alternatives.

But, a scabbard for a hammer or an axe is just a belt loop.  Useful, since dwarves never set things down.  Drinking booze from a barrel is surely a two-handed affair.  A scabbard for a rapier or short sword hangs from the waist but two-handers scabbards are across the back, with a leather chest strap.  Japanese katanas were an exception to that, I suppose.

The change to wooden shields makes sense.  A wooden shield needs a thong and a handhold on the back to be useful.  In LOTR (the books, not the movie) the dwarven King Under the Mountain was Thorin Oakenshield.  Many players consider the DF wooden shield to be kind of an oversight but an oak round shield was pretty good for both offense and defense.  A Tower Shield strikes me as more Roman; very useful when fighting in formation but dwarves outside of an Arena act as individuals.  Now that Meph has introduced painters and artisans, perhaps someday there could be family crests for the shield decoration instead of studs; individualized runes, kind of.  Although, as frequently as new versions come out, I don’t think anyone ever has a fortress long enough for the heraldry of some amazingly-named hero dwarf to be an issue.  :)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 02:45:30 pm by jimboo »
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Mayama

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #477 on: August 11, 2013, 02:49:26 pm »

Would be awesome if you could choose to build a "good" (well at least neutral ;)  ) fortress with temples of armok etc. or a evil one with vampires, werecreatures but I guess its not possible to make it so choosing one thing disables the other one.
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jimboo

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #478 on: August 11, 2013, 02:59:24 pm »

Spring-Steel is Steel+Nickel. Nickel can be transmuted at the alchemist, bought from caravans, bought from the merchant stalls, or mined. And its 0,5 spring-steel bars per reaction. Maybe I should make it 0,1, I just wanted to simulate the need for tools.

Nickel by transmutation?  What I was going to cut-n-paste was this:

“If spring steel is going to become important, maybe Lead in the Alchemists cycle could be replaced by Nickel?  Lead isn’t of much use, Garnierite is never common and the caravans don’t seem to offer much.  Keep the Bismuth, please – it’s a pretty color.”

3e; I don’t see it.  Did I miss the memo?  I'm gonna need that one merchant's license after all...
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silentdeth

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Re: [DWARF] - Discussion - New poll about buildings
« Reply #479 on: August 11, 2013, 03:09:55 pm »


Which cloth/leather items are missing? And I cant target worn items or rotten items, sorry.
Bags, crafts. Maybe even tanned hides directly. Was wondering if it would be possible to do without any tree industry and just use antmen for coke and ash.
No idea... moods I cant affect. The special tag I used to avoid people trading these materials, or sieges showing up with them. Traders would randomly bring bifrost and you could order it... defeating the purpose of it entirely. Same with the rest. I really have no idea how to control this behavior. One of urist da vincis scripts can help, but I need a modified version of it...
Which script?
Magma Steam Engine: Add reactions, use 1 tear and 1 blood of Armok to run indefinitely. What else are you gonna do with all those extra tears and bloods?
 I had a similar thought... they never get used up. I wanted to change the reaction to have a 5% or 10% chance to use them up, and add a second reaction that uses them up competely for something awesome. And a reaction to make obsidian, because water+magma...
You will probably have to talk to who wrote it, I don't think the reactions run like a normal workshop.
Fine clay blocks, value is too high, makes it more valuable then some metals.
Clay has no value assigned, but it uses the soil template. And that has value:1. I cant make it lower, except with 0 value... or did you mean the stone/eathernware items? These I can affect.

The colored fine clay blocks from the brick oven, value is, I think, 25. Steel is only 30.

Forgot about:
Do not use the ADJECTIVE tag in naming things. It makes stockpiles and other such menus confusing as they only use the base name. Want to only poison sharped spikes? Well you can pick spikes, spike, or spikes, guess. Want a stockpile for legendary weapons? Well you can choose meteor hammers, meteor hammers, or meteor hammers, repeat for each weapon. I'm not even certain they are in any order. It is a huge pain. If you used the full name I could just search for legendary and bam, done. Further more, I see no advantage gained by using the ADJECTIVE tag, so it should be simple to fix. Labor intensive maybe, but simple :)

Empty books should be library supplies, not library goods. I don't want them stored with all the other books.
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