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Yes. Text gets cut off too often.

No. I dont care/like the names as they are.

Dont you have anything better to do then making such tiny adjustements?

[Skasi]

Please don't add more workshops. Instead merge and add jobs to existing ones. Right now the list of workshops is really really big. It's what kept me from digging into the mod for a really long time. Isn't it possible to add jobs to vanilla workshops?

I've just started playing Kobold Camp, so I'll take that for examples. It's hard to tell which of the many workshops I will need first and which are dependent on others, so why not simply join similar ones? The Chitin Scrapper, Scale Cleaner and Shell Crafter are very similar to the the Leather Trimmer, which in turn is very similar to vanillas Leather Works. I think these could be easily merged into two, three or so workshops. The Woodcarver is, just like you write in the manual, almost the same as a carpentry. The Booze Burner kind of fits the Still.  Why not merge these?

Just to be clear, of course this does not apply to decorations. I wouldn't mind 100 of them. It's just workshops that turn everything into a bit of a mess.

[Meph]

Skasi: I cant access most vanilla workshops. Only 7 of them I can add reactions to, but I cant even delete the original reactions in them. I have to use custom workshops for everything.

But why does the amount of workshops stop you from playing? They are literally all optional and non-essential. The only exception I can think of is the chemist for soap (although you can still play with the soapmaker) and the metallurgist to get all metals. Thats it. If you dislike the rest, or find it overwhelming, you can turn of 75%, or 50%, or whatever.

The overall feedback I got about the new workshops is overwhelmingly good. And if you dont want them, no worries, you just download the mod, click on a few buttons, and all new workshops will be gone in your version.

I do not merge workshops for two reasons: Game Balancing and User Accessability. First one means that I like to have more expensive workshops. For example Sawmill and Timberyard could be one workshop, but the Sawmill can be build early and does basic stuff, and the Timberyard costs a ton and enables tree-farming. Second one, User Accessability, is about the amount of reactions in each given workshop. I dislike having a workshop with only 1-3 reactions, but more then 2 pages I dislike even more. Players see all hotkeys on page 1 when they open the job menu and only need one button press (up) to get to page2. But if its 3,4,5... pages of reactions then players have to scroll a lot to find the reaction they want. I rather add 4 workshops with 30 reactions each, then add 1 workshop with 120 reactions.

About your examples: Can you imagine all the reactions from the chitin/scale/leather/shell/bone-armor workshops in one place? Woodcarver is necessary because I cant access the carpenter.

Funny that you say that the decorations are good, because I always think that they clog up the workshop menu.

Sorry to be so polar opposite to your side, but like I said, most people like the idea and those (like you) that rather have less workshops there is always the UI to turn them off.

[Samarkand]

Just throwing my two cents in here. Even apart from balancing and accessibility I find that the large variety of workshops is what makes a game of masterwork so rich. I love having a ton of different workshops as opposed to vanilla where you often only make use of a few.

[silentdeth]

I'm pretty sure the caravan guard ghosts is a vanilla thing, since they can't be found on the engraving list for whatever reason. If you select them with "v", you can then use tweak fixghostly (pretty sure thats it) in dfhack and they will disappear.

<3

I knew there had to be a dfhack command for this somewhere, but I could not find it.

...and I have never seen the problems with butchery/pancreas/gizzard stone. 

Mmmm, tasty.
I think giant roaches also give pancreatic tissue, but I am not sure. I couldn't find any in my stocks menu, might have all been cooked.

Forgot to mention:
Electrum doesn't have the reaction class for either gold or silver runes, should have both I think.

Is the shifting stone transformation supposed to effect multiple targets? I had something like 6-8 guys get transformed and then 6-8 metalwraiths.

Cannot use fungiwood to make paper.

[jimboo]

Wow, I go three days w/o checking this thread and there are 4 pages of comments.
From Meph’s response to sabbycat on p23:

- Mud works.  Trampling down cavern trees and hoping for sand is a bit of a pain, but also works (I like glass, hey, and in MW it’s actually decent enough early armor and weapons).
- Merchants as a separate caste: cool.
- Painters: a good thing for those of us who use changeitem m to color code.  A logical extension of the Brick Oven.
- Toolmaker: a machinist’s shop for SteamPunk?  I vote to leave “high tech” to the gnomes; there should be one race around just flat-out smarter than dwarves.
- Cocktail bar: as if the mod needs something else to micromanage …
- Prison: Yes!  Stocks!  With projectile vegetables, happy thoughts for scoring shots.  Nice that you thought of attribute drop as a function of time served.
- Coin mint: OK, but it’s just a forge, coins are press stamped.  SOMEDAY, ToadyOne will re-introduce the economic system and then Meph and the mod squad will really have work cut out for them.
- Mortician: shame that doesn’t work out.  But not even as an extra, necessary reaction to build a burial container?  Dwarves do revere their fallen heroes.
- Smoke Lounge: OK, but should induce some incurable syndrome after a random period.   
Other:  in a mature fortress, there's a lot of free time.  Could there be artists?  As in real life, totally useless, but interesting? Art classes at the library?  Might a glassblower with colored glass make a Portland Vase, a semi-artifact for the display stands?  Does anyone else nickname the legendary masons Rodin and Mikeyangelo?

[Meph]

Jimboo: Random artists wont work. Toolmakers Workshop currently makes printing plates, minting plates, precision tools, clockwork parts, metal quills, flintlocks for making guns, and an assortement of gauges, valves, pipes, boilers and springs. Maybe cranks, joints and pistons as well.

I am not satisfied with the gnomes atm. Their weather control device is silly, because it only has 3 rather useless reaction, which I can easily tie into the magic system. The steampunk armor is equally silly, I made it more to test itemsyndrome, which was brand new at the time, then for anything else. I want to do something better for the gnomes. Scrap the weather control, add "steampunk animals" that you can create. The reagents you can get from your toolmaker.

The alarm siren, the steam engine, the machine factory, the printing press and coin mint, all those should require tools from the toolmaker. And in some cases mechanical power, once dfhack allows me to do that.

Smoke Lounge somehow would end up with only one reaction... I am thinking of scrapping that idea and instead add the "removebadthoughts" to the apothecarius, maybe from taking opium/laudanum.

What did you mean with "merchants as a separate caste:cool." ?

@silentdeth: thank you, is noted. And yes, the stone targets everything nearby. Might also not work at all. Why, how did you get 6-8 dwarves into the 3-tile radius of your digging miner?

[silentdeth]

@silentdeth: thank you, is noted. And yes, the stone targets everything nearby. Might also not work at all. Why, how did you get 6-8 dwarves into the 3-tile radius of your digging miner?

Well 100 useless former merchant, now hauler dwarfs, plus digging out new housing for said dwarfs, plus that one last tile, you know the one? The one they leave undug then go dig out everything else before coming back to? Yeah that tile. In this case said tile was in the main hallway. Plus a minecart/trackstop stone quantum stockpile for all the useless former merchants to carry the stone to, and you have a perfect storm of metal wraithiness. Somehow they managed to kill the miner who was in full steel plate with padded leather under it, steel mail shirt, rigid scaleplate cloak over it, and wielding a superior steel battlepick. Oh, and a bunch of useless former merchants. Meh they will all be resurrected, probably by my lifemancer weaponsmith hammergolem.

[Meph]

Currently playtesting. Thats a lot of merchants/trade/foreign relations buildings. I actually made two groups in the workshop menu for them. TRADING has the 4 merchants, the tavern and the trade storehouse in it, and DIPLOMACY has the embassy, the expedition outfitter, the expedition starting point and the speakers podium in it.

I had the idea for a gallows-building. Sentencing a dwarf to death. Its perfectly logical, considering that there is a prison, and that medieval times usually had public hangings and such. The only thing that bothers me is that it would have only one reaction, and that people can sacrifice dwarves at the temple. Why use the gallows then, if you can kill dwarves and get a reward for it?

The painter works. The screenshot below shows all 8 colors that dwarves can use. Should be enough I think.

Also some new building designs, based of feedback I got on reddit. The printing press and coin mint should be bigger, because its complex machinery and forts probably only build one of each.



EDIT: Oh, and here some stuff about the Speaker Podium.

The reaction will PERMANENTLY raise these mental stats. Speaker will stand on the podium for one month, each passing dwarf will get the bonus once per speech/reading. That means that the speaker podium can slowly raise each dwarves mental stats over the years. Sadly, most of them have no practical application, but a few do help in daily fortress life.

speech (no reagent) => FOCUS, EMPATHY.
religious pamphlets => EMPATHY, PATIENCE, SOCIAL_AWARENESS
prayer leaflet => might reveal the ID of a possessed/cursed dwarf.
Wanted-Posters => Might reveal the ID of a wanted migrant. Used for saboteurs and possessions.
list of poems => CREATIVITY, MUSICALITY, INTUITION, LINGUISTIC_ABILITY
scientific journals => ANALYTICAL_ABILITY, MEMORY
hangings/punishments handbill => WILLPOWER, SPEED, FOCUS.
battle report => WILLPOWER, SPATIAL_SENSE

[nuget102]

-snip-

I have to agree with Meph on this, I would rather have it the way it is now. However, I don't see why Meph would be opposed if someone wanted, for whatever reason, combine the workshops into a separate sub-mod thing. So that way people could have it both ways: more workshops for those who choose it and more reactions in less workshops for those who want that.

Of course, I am not experienced at modding Dwarf Fortress so I don't know if this would actually be possible, and it would require completely custom workshops. However, if it really is possible it would always be nice to see a mod that can please everyone, not just half of the people.

Sorry if this makes little to no sense or if there are typos, i'm tired ._.

[silentdeth]

-snip-

I really, really, don't like non-square workshops. They make it orders of magnitude more difficult to fit them into a good looking and efficient base design, compounded further by the fact that almost all of them are oriented in the same direction.

[Meph]

I payed close attention to making the new workshops accessable from 4, or at least 2 sides.

[Samarkand]

I really, really, don't like non-square workshops. They make it orders of magnitude more difficult to fit them into a good looking and efficient base design, compounded further by the fact that almost all of them are oriented in the same direction.

Most are oriented with openings on either the south, or on both sides. I'm guessing this is because most graphics (i.e. beds, chests, and cabinets) assume you are looking at the south side of an object, making placing them in the northern part of a building appealing. I usually compensate for this by putting all vanilla buildings on the south side of any corridor, since they have no apparent orientation. As for design efficiency, the odd shaped buildings are refreshing. Most of the world is not made of similarly sized cubes.

[Meph]

Yeah, top-down-view is difficult if the tileset is designed to show a side-view. I know most of the buildings are north aligned, thats why I tried to make the new ones different.

Current Progress: Printing Press and Speakers Podium are done, but untested. Wanted-Posters and Prayers also dont work yet, they will help ID suspicious migrants and possessed dwarves, which if for the update after the next.

Toolmaker, Painter, Fletcher are done and tested. Painter and Fletcher are good, Toolmaker I am not quite satisfied with.

Merchants are done, I am just playing around with the prices. But all the reactions are finished. Coin Mint is also done, tested and works. Same goes for the Prison.

I decided to scrap the "Smoke Lounge", because it has only 2 reactions. Instead I put the "dry leaves to make tobacco" into the klin, next to pearlash and plaster powder... and put a "Smoke a pipe to calm down" to the Tavern, and "Light your pipe and relax" to fireplace, brazier and candelabra. This way players get to use it, dwarves can smoke their pipes in their own rooms (if they have one of the three fire-related decorations) and people dont need more workshops.

Decorations also got a "potted conifer" and "potted mushroom", because why not. They are all in the furnace menu and there is plenty of space for them.

Manual is updated to all the new changes. Otherwise not much, but I did this:

Bugfixes & Balancing
 - Fixed "Open crate of medical supplies" reaction. It contained surplus clothing.
 - Armorsets in the Tailor now use gauntlets instead of gloves.*
 - *Civilians were snatching those away.
 - Fixed burning/exploding catapult ammo. No more boulders, now only blocks. Use dfhacks siege engine aiming to use them.
 - Fixed burning/explosing javelins.
 - Magmatankers have been renamed to "tanker cart", and can now also be used to move water.
 - Added garnierite back in, ore of nickel. Will be used for spring-steel, a new alloy needed for fine tools.
 - Changed some building hotkeys and building categories, to better fit the new additions.

New Features
 - Metallurgist can now undo alloys. Melt alloys back into the base metals.
 - GemWorkshop can now mend 5 gems into 1 large gem. Should help with the GemCatalyst and the GemForge.
 - Glassforge can now make rough clear/green/crystal glass from glass bars.*
 - *Glass bars can be made by melting down the glass items from the glassforge and were unuseable.
 - Craftsman can now make a rope from leather.
 - Alchemist can now fill tanker carts with magma or water, using Tear/Blood of Armok gems.
 - Metallurgist/Blast Furnace can now make Spring-Steel. 3 steel bars + 1 nickel bar = 4 spring steel bars. Its used for the Toolmakers Workshop.
 - Tavern can now exchange gold coins into silver coins, and silver coins into copper coins as well.
 - Kiln can now dry leaves to make tobacco.
 - Craftsman/Forge can now produce a new tool, pipes.
 - Dwarves can light their pipes on any brazier, fireplace and candelabra. They can also smoke pipes in the Tavern.*
 - Smoking runs dfhacks "removebadthoughts" script, allowing you to calm down unhappy dwarves.

Any comments? Good direction, not-so-good direction? The Todo list is eternal, it never gets emptier...

EDIT: Tested the podium, seems to work just fine.

[silentdeth]

- Craftsman/Forge can now produce a new tool, pipes.

Suggest changing the name to something like smoking pipe or tobacco pipe, to prevent getting it mixed up with the pipes needed for pumps.

[Torrasque666]

Can I introduce the idea of a printing press being able to either mass produce books for the library system, or being able to produce exact copies of books? Like say you get a masterpiece book but dont want to waste it on just one dwarf, you could produce copies of it. Or maybe just for the non-masterpiece ones.