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Yes. Text gets cut off too often.

No. I dont care/like the names as they are.

Dont you have anything better to do then making such tiny adjustements?

[Meph]

Why should harder farming mention any eggs? It doesnt touch eggs. But you are right, they are outdated, because I cant alter the buttons atm.

[jimboo]

Yes but which beast? What do they do? Are they in the animal section, anything?

Just build a Kennel and the menu shows which beasts.  "What they do" is listed in the RAWS.

[Meph]

Jimboo, he is not talking about the warbeast kennels, but an old, outdated button that doesnt do anything anymore that is called "warbeasts"

[jimboo]

Ah.  I'm brain-fuddled this morning, fitzing around with wild sauropods that I mistook for tame until they stomped a half-dozen dwarves.   

[Meph]

Just letting people know: The add-spatter crash was caused by the "knowledge-stones" that are produced in the poison-coating and rune-coating reactions. I added them to give XP to the worker, otherwise you engrave 1000 weapons with runes and still have a dabbling runesmith. But apparently it crashes the game if you add products to a reaction that uses this plugin. Consequences for the mod:

Short version:
 - Crash is fixed.
 - Runesmith skill/labor is gone, now done by the Engraver. (Engrave gold rune into weapon)
 - Tanner is BACK. (because I had this one skill/labor free all of a sudden)
 - This also fixes the "Tanner Shop is build by Ambassador bug".

Spoiler: Long confusing version: (click to show/hide)

Crash if fixed.
I removed XP gain from poison-coating and rune-coating.
Poisoners still get XP from making poisons.
Runesmithing is now done by Engravers. (Engrave gold rune into weapon)
Engravers still get XP from engraving of course, but not from rune-coating.
Since the Runesmith-Labor is pointless, I removed it.
I moved the Diplomacy/Ambassador into the old Runesmithing/Runesmith spot.
I moved Tanning/Tanner back into the Diplomacy/Ambassador spot.
All reactions in the tanner now need tanning again, instead of leatherworks.
Tanner Shop is now again build by the tanner, not ambassador.
Changed the profession graphics for the skills involved.
Crafters Guild now includes the Tanner.
Smiths Guild no longer includes a Runesmith.

I also raised the chance for guild dwarves to 50/50 (50% normal dwarves to 50% guild-members) and raised the chances for mage-migrants/embark-dwarves a lot. A lot is still very rare, but you might see some more mages pop-up here and there now. A little over 1 in 100 dwarves should be one. I did this for three reasons:

1. I am getting tired of the questions: "are guilds broken" "I dont get guild migrants" "is this intended?" "tanner is build by diplomacy"
2. I think its more fun, because it adds a bit more randomness. It also makes the game slightly easier, having random guildmembers and mages showing up.
3. It wakes interest. You see what a firemage can do, and suddenly you want to check out the others. This leads to higher use of the guild and magic system.

Feedback?

Edit: I also enabled the Soapmaker by default, for balancing reasons. Soap was in the Chemists Lab, but since this requires research first and is more late-game now, I thought it would be good to enable to early access to basic soap again.

[fricy]

@Meph: I'm not sure. If/when there's a new add_spatter plugin with the bugfix (ag fixed it on github, it's only a matter of compiling the plugin for all platforms) runesmith will have a place in the game again. Do you think it's worth the trouble to remove them now and add them back later? Although it makes sense to give the job to the engravers...
50-50% feels a bit much for guildy-normal, how about 33-66%? They should be prized. Definitely YES for the mages.

[Varyag]

Excellent news on the crash fix.

I like having engravers do runesmithing instead as it makes the engraver more useful beyond increasing wealth, now the engraver is not just some dude who smooths stones all day for 10 years.

I prefer having tanning back as that is more work for my proletarian dwarves (always disliked the term garbagedwarf)

Mage frequency is good at between 1-2% but i think a ratio of 20% guild dwarves is more fair than 50%. Military guild dwarves should be even rarer at 5-6% as they truly are the best of the best non magical dwarves.

[Meph]

Guild dwarves are now on 34%. 22% are guilds dwarves, 2% are priests, 8% is military and 2% the arcane dwarf, the base dwarf you need for mages.

I also changed their peasants profession names, so they are called "Masons Guild Peasant" or "Marksman Recruit" so people can easier identify them in menus/embark.

[silentdeth]

I kind of liked that leatherworking covered tanning, it made sense, learning the job from the ground up. Could you move leatherworking to tanning, renaming it tanning/leatherworking or something like that. Then use the leatherworking skill slot as something else, maybe splitting poisoning into it.

If you are intent on removing runsmithings, I would suggest maybe a different skill, like metalcrafting, to replace it. My engravers tend to be rather busy, and I can see micromanaging them between their engraving jobs and rune jobs would be rather difficult. My metalcrafters however, rarely have anything to do. Not to mention the engraver role rating in therapist is based on liking stone, and slabs. Not something a runesmith sees a lot of.

I also agree with the above post, if it is fixed already in the dev version of dfhack, just get someone to compile it and give you a copy of the updated plugin. Seems at lot easier and doing all this skill juggling.

[dukea42]

Awesome. I like it being shifted engraver as well.

Can I make a request that we get a table in the manual to translate vanilla skills and names over to new skills and names for dwarf, Orc and Kobold? Therapist shows those changes for dwarves only and there's still the labels in the dfhack UI therapist that doesn't seem to. I am less worrie about labels a long as I know what the translation is. 

[dukea42]

Sorry...double post with phone connectivity issues.

[Meph]

dukea: The skill renames are the same for orcs and kobolds... I only change the profession names ingame using the raws for those, impossible for the therapist to pick that up.

silentdeth: Your engravers are busy? wtf.

I already finished writing everything, ag never said anything about rewriting add-spatter. It even makes sense, especially considering that rune-coating ignores skills anyway. the product is the same, no matter the skill of the runesmith.

I kind of liked that leatherworking covered tanning, it made sense, learning the job from the ground up. Could you move leatherworking to tanning, renaming it tanning/leatherworking or something like that. Then use the leatherworking skill slot as something else, maybe splitting poisoning into it.

I can not agree with this at all. Its like saying a Furnace Operator and a Weaponsmith are the same. The tanner works with skins, making a material, leather, by using water and chemicals. A leatherworker takes a material, leather, and makes items/crafts/armors, using thread and needle, scissors and hammers. I can asure you from RL experience that an experienced leatherworker (because I know two in RL) have no idea how to tan leather.

[masterdiscord]

I am with Meph on this one, but OTOH, a skilled RL smith could likely make a sword or a chain, coke his own coal and smelt his own metals. (I've known smiths that could.) I'm sure there ARE leatherworkers that were interested enough to learn tannery too. But that just means they have two labors enabled, right?

I didn't see anything like this so...

SUGGESTION: Could the Crucible or Blast Furnace have a mass-melt function? I just have so dang many copper armor pieces to melt down and so little coal. The voucher exchange system would work, I imagine, as a substitute now that I think of it. Can you buy bars? Still running 3e for the course of this fort.

[Meph]

I cant access the melting of items... its like dumping or forbidding, its only "flags" on the item that the player can toggle, but no tags/raws exist that I could use. So... no.

You can buy and sell metal bars in the merchant stalls, yes. For cash.

[Mortimer1066]

Wow Meph, thanks for the hard work to find the cause of this crash.  Hopfully the fix does not mess up your vision of how the mod plays too much.  It does seem odd that only some of us actually had a crash from it.